touchscreen brainstorming

[kink192]

using a touchscreen found here http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8448 found by gamer4life, i will be attempting to make a touchscreen for the psp, i need a lot of help though and will be organizing a team for this please do join and post thoughts here

[VoX]

I don't want to be part of the team, but this info will help you alot: http://forums.ps2dev.org/viewtopic.php?t=8896&highlight=&sid=3db1c6654d953fad2b4aaedda8ca3789

[kink192]

oh geez....this is gonna be a lot harder than i thought...hmm i think im going to need a lot more help then before

[SYSTEM aka (Cyberpyrot)]

oh geez....this is gonna be a lot harder than i thought...hmm i think im going to need a lot more help then before

I can make one

[kink192]

really? wait make one as in the screen or the other materials needed?

[VoX]

I can make it too, I warned you how hard it is but to me that isn't really that hard

[Gamer4life]

im willing 2 help even if VoX isnt althoughim not sure what i could do 2 help but will try
*sidenote i got a new sig and avvy coming very very soon its almost ready probaly in like a day or 3 but im sure every1 will be impressed with Luke's work cause it is KICKASS MAN

[Ch4rL13]

im willing 2 help even if VoX isnt althoughim not sure what i could do 2 help but will try
*sidenote i got a new sig and avvy coming very very soon its almost ready probaly in like a day or 3 but im sure every1 will be impressed with Luke's work cause it is KICKASS MAN

wow lol, you actualy said it and didnt put in the * lol
btw VoX have you actualy done it yet? or do u just know you can do it, i wanna see a vid with this

EDIT: maybe this explains it? "I AM FREAKIN PISSED OFF AND FILLED WITH ANGER" lol and i just notice you have a * in ur sig..
confusing lol, well lets not get off topic

[Gamer4life]

im freakkin pissed off bad atm and look at my post quality idk anymore about what people think of what i say anymore atm if im not susposed 2 say it it will put censor or it so ass there i said it you wanna fight about it ....i thought not

[Tri-edge]

there I gave a good post point. does that make you feel better? 

[Gamer4life]

only about -65534% better i would tell you the reason as 2 why i got that and who did it but dont feel like cause it pisses me off 2 think about it see know yall got me pissed off again *Gamer4life punches a hole in the wall*

[VoX]

I know I could do this, its just that I'm held up with work and setting up my store. I can help give you some information ect. I may join in and complete this mod if I get time and some money I can spend on things.

[Ch4rL13]

I know I could do this, its just that I'm held up with work and setting up my store. I can help give you some information ect. I may join in and complete this mod if I get time and some money I can spend on things.

wow lol, its amazing how you just post whats on topic and forget about what were talking bout, like it nvr happened. good for you lol
btw gamer, i know what happened, and i wasnt fighting that you said ass, im saying your begining to grow up and post like and 18 year old, well mayb e not an 18 year old lol, but its nothing be that mad about, and if were talking about the same thing, you did do this to yourself, but i gues you didnt know..

[Gamer4life]

i know i did and accepting that is brining up rage and anger constantly in my head and life but *hold up making a gamer qoute* those that make an action must accept responsibility 4 it those that dont live in the shadows not the real *i hope many take these words and can make something of them selves and i am hoping this will get put in someones sig *crosses fingers* and talos how would you knownevermind gonna pm you about and in accepting what i did even though it was helping another i somehow have matured considerably b4 i was immature but dont think i wont have a little fun evey know and again

[VoX]

wow lol, its amazing how you just post whats on topic and forget about what were talking bout, like it nvr happened. good for you lol
btw gamer, i know what happened, and i wasnt fighting that you said ass, im saying your begining to grow up and post like and 18 year old, well mayb e not an 18 year old lol, but its nothing be that mad about, and if were talking about the same thing, you did do this to yourself, but i gues you didnt know..

Thanks, I don't like off topic talk *Wink*

[IndyChav]

VoX, Schematics, show them how they would need to wire it up =]

Gamer stick on topic. leave your b*tching to MSN or the PM system, opening up to the public allows them to voice their opinion and im sure you wouldn't like it, especially if i  gave you my opinion.

[Ch4rL13]

VoX, Schematics, show them how they would need to wire it up =]

Gamer stick on topic. leave your b*tching to MSN or the PM system, opening up to the public allows them to voice their opinion and im sure you wouldn't like it, especially if i  gave you my opinion.

add what u said to the whine about life thread gamer, thats were it goes
btw is this just wiring the cable to the backlight switch?

[IndyChav]

its not that simple i know that much =3

[VoX]

Read that topic I linked to in the second post. It explains what to do sufficiently

[IndyChav]

 I dont want to hear it so anything unrelated will be deleted.

Vox I read btu my inferior mind couldnt process it =3

[hglazm]

I think you would be able to wire that to the joystick. I think.

[VoX]

Please read the topic before posting, It has already been established that you can't

[Ch4rL13]

Please read the topic before posting, It has already been established that you can't

ok i have no idea what this dude is talking about, wut is the colors?
and how would you wire a touch screen to a joystick, that makes no sence!
plz explain Vox lol

[VoX]

Ok, The touchscreen's output data contains the X and Y positions where it is been pressed on the screen, what we want to do is take those signal's and convert them so the PSP can interpretate them, either via a 4 wire TouchScreen controller or a micro controller (PIC) and then out put it to the PSP via the serial port, this could allow people to recode their programs to read these signals and designate the position which the user is pressing on and then adapt that into their programs. I hope you understand the summery of what they are trying to do

[Ch4rL13]

i figured you would need some type of software so this would work, im thinking a PIC would be the best way to do it
i think i get it somewhat, but im not going to be able to help lol, i do not understabd most of this but get the basics so i will just watch
hope kink can get this to work

[SYSTEM aka (Cyberpyrot)]

Things needed for true touch screen.

touch panel
Cap for mesuring resistence with microcontroller
microcontroller software
Home brew for microcontroller software



Things needed for joystick type touch pad

touch panel
Cap for mesuring resistence with microcontroller
microcontroller software


I can do the bottom one right now....

[robin1989]

would you need a psp hombrew person to do the first one im guessing

[VoX]

Know any good PIC programmer's? Looks like a semi-hard job

[Ch4rL13]

the EPIC is a good one as far as i know
go look in the micrcontroller section, cyber has some programers there

[*FuFa]

Wait a sec, a Touchscreen can't output data if there is no IC on it to send data, it works over resistance, you would need a flip flop IC, to cut the connection from the Analog to the Gold pads, because you can use a touchscreen to higher a resistance, but can not lower thus you would only be able to go left and up for example when the analog stick and touch panel are wired up. Disconnect the Analog, wire the 4 contacts to the analog pin, and you got yourself a 4.3" analog stick.

[kink192]

from what ive accumulated, this isnt going to work without cfw, but the blueprints are rght here...why hasnt anyone done it yet? lol we have PIC programmers, im sure we can get software coders, this is more than possible.

p.s. no more off topic stuff please...

[*FuFa]

All we need is the plugin that makes the analog stick work as d-pad, I had that for a while running on mine when my Analog was being a . and Bam, touch the left or right sides and navigating through a xmb has never been so much fun.

[pax]

Here is the plugin to use the analog stick in XMB. It's called joysens v1.3 it only works in 3.71m33 or 1.50 OFW.

http://www.psp-hacks.com/file/1322

Edit the following files inside the ms0:/SEPLUGINS/ folder (create them if they don't exist):
- game.txt for use in UMD games
- game150.txt for homebrew loaded from the GAME150 folder (or GAME folder in 1.5 kernel mode)
- game3xx.txt for homebrew loaded from the GAME3xx folder (or GAME folder in 3.xx kernel mode) - replace xx by your firmware minor version
- pops.txt for games played with POPS
- vsh.txt for VSH/XMB
to at least contain the following line:
ms0:/SEPLUGINS/joysens.prx

[*FuFa]

Here is the plugin to use the analog stick in XMB. It's called joysens v1.3 it only works in 3.71m33 or 1.50 OFW.

http://www.psp-hacks.com/file/1322

Edit the following files inside the ms0:/SEPLUGINS/ folder (create them if they don't exist):
- game.txt for use in UMD games
- game150.txt for homebrew loaded from the GAME150 folder (or GAME folder in 1.5 kernel mode)
- game3xx.txt for homebrew loaded from the GAME3xx folder (or GAME folder in 3.xx kernel mode) - replace xx by your firmware minor version
- pops.txt for games played with POPS
- vsh.txt for VSH/XMB
to at least contain the following line:
ms0:/SEPLUGINS/joysens.prx

Yeah that is exactly the one I was talking about, thank you : )

[platinumc]

headache

i just had to reread this topic lol ...


and i still dont get the joystick touchpad thing lol

[SYSTEM aka (Cyberpyrot)]

I created a microcontroler a while back the converted resistence to pulse waves I will add it to the hive board fot those who want psp touch..

[Ch4rL13]

i do not understand the joystick thing either, but using the micro-controller make this much more simple?

[*FuFa]

i do not understand the joystick thing either, but using the micro-controller make this much more simple?

It will make it work as a D-Pad, that's the only reason you would need a PIC.

Also if you don't want to understand that a touch screen and analog stick work the same then don't expect any more help from me, this is getting rediclious

[Gamer4life]

ok everything that has been said so far has gone over my head i dont think i can or will be any help dangit   man i so wanted 2 help

[sprocketme2]

Personally I dont see any reason to do it using the joystick setup. Its more complicated, less flexable, and you have to sacrifice your joystick (probably). Both setups are going to require similar hardware so why not go ahead and use the (unused ) serial port. The only advantage of using the joystick setup is that the touchscreen will have a familiar interface for homebrew devs. As a final note, I strongly suggest using a PIC for Analog to digital conversion because it will be smaller than a touchscreen controller, simpler setup, cheaper, more available, and wont have a ton of uneeded features.

I would like to help on this but I have no experience with anything here so best of luck. If it turns out well, I will be happy to buy a pic/other supplies.

[anthonyta]

it would be pretty cool just for the internet browser. even better if you can make the X button work through the touch screen along with the directionals from the analog. windows  or iphone set up would be kinda fun to

[sprocketme2]

From what I have found. ADC is not terrably difficult using a pic. Just some trial and error maybe.
http://www.tigoe.net/pcomp/pic/pic-analog.shtml This article covers analog to digital conversion programing for pic. I also looked for a suitable pic for the job and the PIC16F716 seems like the most suitable.

PIC16F716:
I/O pins: 13
8 bit A/D channels: 4
Timers 8bit/16bit: 2/1
Vdd Range: 2.0V-5.5V

[Blizzrad]

ok everything that has been said so far has gone over my head i dont think i can or will be any help dangit   man i so wanted 2 help

There are a few different ideas being thrown around in this thread, so I can understand why you might be getting confused (I'm a little confused myself). Basically, as *Fufa said, a resistive touch panel operates much like the analog stick on the PSP. A steady voltage is sent through the X and Y axis, and the position of a joystick or the coordinates of a stylus can be determined by how much resistance is then placed on each axis by whatever mechanism is being used (potentiometers in the analog stick, resistive/conductive layers in the panel). This pdf file offers a good explanation of how these panels work. The panel does not output coordinate data, only an analog voltage, so a controller is needed to convert this resistance to digital X/Y coordinate data which can be used by the software to move a cursor or press a virtual button in the OSD. The different methods of handling the A/D conversion and connection with the PSP are being discussed.

A touch interface could have really cool applications for future homebrew software, but I'm not really seeing the advantage of incorporating it into the XMB/browser/other existing software. The browsers cursor control is relative not absolute, so there wouldn't be the "look and touch" interface that makes a touch screen intuitive and practical. Also, because there are no on-screen buttons, the stylus would need to be used left handed so that the right hand could still control the face buttons (also making the D-pad/analog stick and R-trigger unavailable).

Personally I dont see any reason to do it using the joystick setup. Its more complicated, less flexable, and you have to sacrifice your joystick (probably). Both setups are going to require similar hardware so why not go ahead and use the (unused ) serial port. The only advantage of using the joystick setup is that the touchscreen will have a familiar interface for homebrew devs...

I am probably missing something here, but wouldn't the joystick setup be the simplest of all? Since the A/D conversions for X/Y positions are already being done with the joystick, couldn't making the contacts switchable to the touch panel for a direct connection as *Fufa suggested cut out the need for an external controller? If the panel is being used with specifically designed homebrew programs, couldn't the values returned from the panel be calibrated in software?

The big advantage I see to using the serial port is that it would make the panel an easily removable peripheral which could be placed over top the PSPs case (eliminating the need for case modding). The serial controller board Hantouch makes for this panel looks pretty compact, it would not fit internally but it could be used externally without being too awkward (though a PIC based solution could probably be made smaller and would definitely be more interesting). I'm guessing the Hantouch board would also require some level shifting to work with the PSPs non-standard serial port.



 

[Gamer4life]

ok thanks blizzrad it is starting 2 make a tiny bit of sense i have a really inept sense or ability 2 learn stuff very fast so i will continue 2 read this thread and hopefully fully undestand it by the end i hope this gets made it would be cool and if it does sony MIGHT put it in the psp in the future (notice i said might)

[sprocketme2]

I am probably missing something here, but wouldn't the joystick setup be the simplest of all? Since the A/D conversions for X/Y positions are already being done with the joystick, couldn't making the contacts switchable to the touch panel for a direct connection as *Fufa suggested cut out the need for an external controller? If the panel is being used with specifically designed homebrew programs, couldn't the resistance being read from the panel be calibrated in the software?

The big advantage I see to using the serial port is that it would make the panel an easily removable peripheral which could be placed over top the PSPs case (eliminating the need for case modding). The serial controller board Hantouch makes for this panel looks pretty compact, it would not fit internally but it could be used externally without being too awkward (though a PIC based solution could probably be made smaller and would definitely be more interesting). I'm guessing the Hantouch board would also require something like a MAX3232 serial line converter to work with the PSPs non-standard serial port.

Yes you are correct. I guess I had a misunderstanding of how the existing joystick worked. Partially because I didnt realise the joystick input is natively converted to digital input by the psp.

it would be pretty cool just for the internet browser. even better if you can make the X button work through the touch screen along with the directionals from the analog. windows  or iphone set up would be kinda fun to

I dought this will ever work because tapping the touch panel at all could be easily mistaken by the software as a 'X' click and there will be no way of distinguishing between click and the start of a drag. (unless the software waits to see if you drag) Then the reaction time will be very slow.

I dont know how the touch panel will interface with the web browser at all. The web browser's cursur does not move to the exact X and Y coordinates of the joystick. Instead It continually moves in the direction of the joystick compared to its origin.

Heres an example:
If you put the psp joystick to X=100 Y=100 the browser's cursor will continually go at a 45 degree heading from its origional coordinates. Same prinipal will occur with the touch panel. When touched at the top right corner (I assume) the cursor will continually move at a 45 degree heading from its origional coordinates, rather than jumping to the spot directly below your finger. So major firmware changes would have to be implemented for the touchscreen to work with the browser.

On a final note, does anybody have pinouts of the 4 analog pads that the joystick rests on?

[Blizzrad]

On a final note, does anybody have pinouts of the 4 analog pads that the joystick rests on?

  [[ ]  ]  =  GND
[  [ ]]    =  -X
  [[ ]]    =   +
[  [ ]]    =  -Y

Electro also made some nice diagrams of the PSP analog connections which can be found in his L2/R2 tutorial.

[gr8npwrfl]

If you fed the resistance into a pic you could set the screen as the center of origin.

You could then scale the output so that it would work the same as the analogue joystick. You could
also feed the buttons so that you could use touch to control up - down - right - left. If you started at
the bottom of the screen and slid your finder up, then you could activate the up key. Same as touching
the top and sliding down would touch the down or x key.

You could switch modes and run just digital, just analogue or both at the same time.

Then the navigation would operate just like the fake did on his video.
 

[sprocketme2]

  [[ ]  ]  =  GND
[  [ ]]    =  -X
  [[ ]]    =   +
[  [ ]]    =  -Y

Electro also made some nice diagrams of the PSP analog connections which can be found in his L2/R2 tutorial.

Thank you, your  diagram is pretty, and helpful. On the sparkfun electronics touch panel there is X1 X2 as well as Y1 and Y2, so which goes where of the 4 analog pads?

Im still having my doughts about connecting the touch panel to the joystick pads. The psp converts the resistance created by pots inside the joystick R₁ohms<X<R₂ohms and R₃ohms<Y<R₄ohms but the resistance range from the touch panel will be different 400ohms<X<1200ohms and 100ohms<Y<700ohms That stock resistance range used for ADC may be incompatable with the touch panel resistance range.

You could then scale the output so that it would work the same as the analogue joystick. You could
also feed the buttons so that you could use touch to control up - down - right - left. If you started at
the bottom of the screen and slid your finder up, then you could activate the up key. Same as touching
the top and sliding down would touch the down or x key.

You could switch modes and run just digital, just analogue or both at the same time.

Then the navigation would operate just like the fake did on his video.

I decided to contribute the only way I know how. Ive written a small homebrew app that may interpret analog input as relative (like psp web browser) or absolute (what you would want for touch panel) I will release source for free to anybody who pm's me as long as I recieve credit.
Download Link (release notes included)
Heres a quick vid of the app to understand how it works more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZjOtezVco

[gr8npwrfl]

The resistance of the joystick pads are series connections. If the pic simulates the voltage created by the change of resistance, you then feed that voltage to the PSP. That way no matter what the resistance of the touch pad is, the pic scales it and sends the proper voltage to the PSP.

The problem is the joystck is a cumulative device. That is if you move it a small amount to the right the cursor moves slowly to the right. But as long as you hold the joytick the cursor continues to move.

The touch pad is and absolute device. You want the cursor to move to the point you are touching and then stop. Every time you touch that point that is where you want the cursor to stop.

It would be interesting what we would do for a translation. Would be be changing a touch pad from an absolute device to a cumulative device ???

Then how would it behave ?

How would you want it to behave ?

would touching the touchpad further towards the edges only make the cursor react faster ?

[*FuFa]

I decided to contribute the only way I know how. Ive written a small homebrew app that may interpret analog input as relative (like psp web browser) or absolute (what you would want for touch panel) I will release source for free to anybody who pm's me as long as I recieve credit.
Download Link (release notes included)
Heres a quick vid of the app to understand how it works more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZjOtezVco

Excellent : ) I knew that the PSP could read out the exact spot where the Analog Stick is, but it's even nicer to see something working that way on the PSP, good work, now you will only need to get it working in the XMB/Web Browser.

[VoX]

Nice work Sprocketme2 on the application. The behaviour will be a major problem unless we can program the PIC to our need's, I've being thinking about thresholds working outwards from the center of the screen....

[Blizzrad]

Awesome app sprocketme2, that is an excellent demonstration of the cursor response needed for the touch panel. I never thought much of the PSP touchscreen idea before, but now that I think about it more, the PSPs screen size/dimentions would be well suited for an on-screen keyboard text entry app, and homebrew games could also make good use of it. Do you think it is feasible for your app to be worked into a plugin enabling absolute cursor positioning in the browser?

The touch pad is and absolute device. You want the cursor to move to the point you are touching and then stop. Every time you touch that point that is where you want the cursor to stop.

It would be interesting what we would do for a translation. Would be be changing a touch pad from an absolute device to a cumulative device ???

I think a touch panel would be much better suited for use with homebrew applications intended for absolute cursor positioning. It seems like any hardware method of adapting the touch panel for use with unintended software is still going to result in a control scheme which is more awkward and difficult to use than the default stick/d-pad. Using a stylus for cursor movements also takes one hand away from the buttons (most people will want to use their right hand) so outside of homebrew applications, (where virtual on-screen buttons can be used instead) this would further complicate the control input. While this type of translating would make for an interesting project, I don't think it would ultimately prove very useful, but maybe I'm just not thinking hard enough.

...On the sparkfun electronics touch panel there is X1 X2 as well as Y1 and Y2, so which goes where of the 4 analog pads?

I'm guessing something like X1 and Y1 = the + contact, while X2 = -X and Y2 = -Y. The coordinates could then be interpreted from the resistance values read from -X and -Y, though this would be quite different from how the analog stick works (the circuit would be open by default rather than at a constant resistance). The analog stick and touch screen would definitely need to be isolated from each other by a switch, and the software in use would have to set the calibration for the analog inputs accordingly. You could certainly be right about the resistance range being an issue, if the ranges cannot be properly calibrated by the software, then this method will not work without a PIC to scale the output as gr8npwrfl said.

A serial interface might be the better approach due to the ease with which it can be used as a peripheral, and set up by just about anyone. Making a touch-panel useful ultimately relies on having the software to use it with; and the more accessible the hardware, the more people will want to use it and program for it.