12v power from mobo

[taylorclark]

so i was reading some things on llamma.com's forums, and i stumbled accross this, and was curious if it is safe to use this as a power source for fans and things. pic below. (notice: this is not my pic.)




http://forums.llamma.com/viewtopic.php?t=7074
^^^topic here

[moeiscool]

i too would like to know, king mike? system? any reflections?

[blackburn]

these are the points i used on my xbox......

[taylorclark]

and there's no way to get banned for this right? they can't track it?

[802Chives]

I would say that you will be fine using that power source, as long as you don't go to crazy with it( I wouldn't suggest more than 2 Fans and couple dozen LEDs)  Many people use this spot as it is directly wired to 12V source on PSU.  I havn't seen any cases of people being banned for that, however that statement that they can't track it is not 100% true.

Contrary to popular belief the designers were not stupid, there are provisions for monitoring power consumption because it was probly a nessecary tool for design and debug of the machine.

So can they track these mods?....Yes.  Will they?...I doubt it.  It is highly unlikely they will snoop around your system unless you bring attention to yourself somehow with modded firmware or other wierd behavior on LIVE.

I have discussed this with people before, and I seem to recall someone was able to monitor power in the BIOS, so it was possible for M$ to see.  But highly unlikely, espeacially since most of these mods are to extend the life of M$' product.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[SYSTEM aka (Cyberpyrot)]

Also remember M$ has the ability to monitor voltage so if your project does not require 12v use the USB port as M4 cannot monitor that power

[taylorclark]

well i really only want to connect one extra fan, so it should be okay right? and i've tried using the usb to power fans, but it just doesn't push enough air. even if they can monitor it, isn't it no different than the intercooler? so wouldn't M$ just think it was an intercooler or something?

[blackburn]

just dont worry about it, im runnign cold cathodes and a lot of LEDs in my xbox running off the sources listed (minus 1 source i used to power LEDs, used PulseVU GND for LED grounds)

[taylorclark]

okay, thanks for all the help everyone. i'll get started on putting the fan in tonight, ill post pics when i'm done.

[blackburn]

sweet, cant wait to see it

[taylorclark]

so i'm having a few problems.
1. i don't really know where to put the fan. so i just kinda slapped it in there. if you have any suggestions, that would help alot.
2. i got the rrod three times last night, and fixed it everytime, now i'm worried that it'll happen again for good.

I want really good air flow, but i really don't want to cut the case, i will if i have to tho.

[802Chives]

well if you don't want to cut put em in the bottom blowing in, may have to cut metal cage a bit.

Um the RRODs don't go away. In fact they tend to re-occur more and more frequently till you cant fix em any more.  All you can really do is try to prolong the time between the RRODs with extra cooling and reapplying thermal paste.

Not many people will admit that tho, most have used the fixes so many times by time they figure it out, then it comes back to bite em whe customers are like why is it broken again.  then they go into hiding.

But be persistant, you may get another 6 months or a year if you are lucky.

BTW what fix are u using for RROD?

[taylorclark]

Well I think what caused it was a short with the fan wiring. The first time it happened, i had the case open. I bumped the fan and the two wires touched, creating a spark, and then the xbox powered down and I got the rrod. or it probably could be because I forgot to plug the main case fans in.   

I'm really praying that it's just a one time deal, unfortunately, it probably wont be, or so I hear.   

And I'm starting to "consider" cutting a hole in the side of the case, so the fan could blow air in. but what would be the best and cleanest way to cut the hole? Could i just use hot melt clue to attach the fan to the inside of the case(I don't like the look of screws or bolts in the case)?

Sorry for all the noob questions, but I just don't feel like up my month old xbox. 

edit: so i cut a hole in the case, and i've got the fan blowing air in. now it sounds like a jet taking off. haha ...i just need to figure out a way to quiet the fan down a little, i'll probably put some rubber wherever it makes contact with the case, to eliminate vibrations going through the case. I'm pretty sure there aren't enough holes for the air going in to leave from, so I'm also going to try to work on that also. The hole is pretty rough, so I'm defiantly going to have to fix that up somehow.

here's pics...



and because this was bought refurbished, this is Microsoft's fix for the rrod. these are basically mushy clay things, its pretty weird.

[blackburn]

looks good so far, just clean up the hole, if you want to adjust the fan speed, add a potentiometer to the fan's power. ill post a link in a bit with a tutorial if you'd like

[taylorclark]

well the first fan I tried, i had a potentiometer on there, but i was worried that the pot couldn't handle the current. i know, im paranoid.
it was a 5k pot, that i stole from an old walkie talkie. while it worked, it wasn't exactly working great. i could really only turn the fan on and off, there was no "speed control," which was kinda the whole point of putting the pot on there.

and it would help tremendously if you could post a link to that tutorial. I don't really know what i'm doing at all. Thanks!

[TaSlAyEr]

so i'm having a few problems.
1. i don't really know where to put the fan. so i just kinda slapped it in there. if you have any suggestions, that would help alot.
2. i got the rrod three times last night, and fixed it everytime, now i'm worried that it'll happen again for good.

I want really good air flow, but i really don't want to cut the case, i will if i have to tho.

it's a one time deal happened to me when i was modding my 360 the solder was touching the metal case causing a short thus causing an RROD fixed it by resoldering and losening the case screws so don't worry your shi- is not going to get it again unlees the X-clamps fail then your F**KED

[802Chives]

I am interested to see the fan potentiometer tutorial.  I have yet to see one that doesn't waste a ton of power and isnt a huge fire hazard. In order to do it correctly you really need a pot rated for >2W, and even then it just dumps the excess power across the pot, thus creating more heat.  No body needs more heat in their ez bake 360!

So to that I propose an effecient adjustable fan PWM regulator using the 555 timer:
http://www.dprg.org/tutorials/2005-11a/index.html

Everything you need is in that link, even the complete circuit.  If you insert an resistor between D1 and the pot or D2 and the pot(not sure which, but one or the other) you could trim the circuit so it wont turn the fan off completely.

Or the easy way is to get the Zalman Fanmate2 from Newegg for $3. (same as above link essentially, but already made) Llamma charges $8 for it.

If anyone wants to try the 555 circuit and write a nice tut, let me know and I will try to assist in anyway I can.

[taylorclark]

I am interested to see the fan potentiometer tutorial.  I have yet to see one that doesn't waste a ton of power and isnt a huge fire hazard. In order to do it correctly you really need a pot rated for >2W, and even then it just dumps the excess power across the pot, thus creating more heat.  No body needs more heat in their ez bake 360!

well before i hooked it up, i tried to do a little research on the pot i had, apparently it is only rated for .25 watts, but the fan is rated at 1 watt. so i don't quite feel as dumb now that you said that.

So to that I propose an effecient adjustable fan PWM regulator using the 555 timer:
http://www.dprg.org/tutorials/2005-11a/index.html

Everything you need is in that link, even the complete circuit.  If you insert an resistor between D1 and the pot or D2 and the pot(not sure which, but one or the other) you could trim the circuit so it wont turn the fan off completely.

that seems way too complicated for me.

Or the easy way is to get the Zalman Fanmate2 from Newegg for $3. (same as above link essentially, but already made) Llamma charges $8 for it.

That seems like a very simple and quick solution. I also looked at fan controllers that are made for computers. You know, they go into the floppy drive slot or cd drive slot on computers. The extra screen would look completely bada$$. Although I'm not sure how well that would fit into the xbox 360....

it's a one time deal happened to me when i was modding my 360 the solder was touching the metal case causing a short thus causing an RROD fixed it by resoldering and losening the case screws so don't worry your shi- is not going to get it again unlees the X-clamps fail then your F**KED

thanks for that, that makes me feel about 100% better. (that sounds sarcastic, but its not)

[Gwailow]

man ive been reading alot of this thread and its got me all antsy on getting my xbox all light up and fans
this thread helped me with where to get the power out instead of cutting a wire i wasn't sure about
anyways heres a nice small case 3.5" fan controller to think about

http://www.businessvision.net/edge/Stores/bestbytecomputer/ProductImages/evercool-fan-control.jpg

i kinda like the idea alot had its got me thinking more lol

[TaSlAyEr]

man ive been reading alot of this thread and its got me all antsy on getting my xbox all light up and fans
this thread helped me with where to get the power out instead of cutting a wire i wasn't sure about
anyways heres a nice small case 3.5" fan controller to think about

http://www.businessvision.net/edge/Stores/bestbytecomputer/ProductImages/evercool-fan-control.jpg

i kinda like the idea alot had its got me thinking more lol

if your was a new fan go with the tailsmoon whisper fan they are the best  and there easy to install just pull out your olld one and plug it in and bam jobs done
also get the twin light fan duct and aura vent lights and a window to complete it

[taylorclark]

if your was a new fan go with the tailsmoon whisper fan they are the best  and there easy to install just pull out your olld one and plug it in and bam jobs done
also get the twin light fan duct and aura vent lights and a window to complete it

i plan on it, but i just need to get my paycheck first.

:update:
so i got the fan put in, i figured out a way to make it look nicer. i even threw in a few led's while i was at it. so far its been working great. the only problem i have with it now is that its either on or off. and i don't want to turn the fan on and off fifteen times an hour, so i did a little searching around, and i found this http://www.heatsink-guide.com/content.php?content=control.shtml. it should be fairly cheap to make, under $10. and it even includes radioshack part numbers, which should help a lot for a noob like me.

[gameroms]

i can show you where to make a bridge on the mother board giving you 12v, no cutting required on stock fans.  if that will help you, ill open my 360 and snap a pic.

[taylorclark]

i can show you where to make a bridge on the mother board giving you 12v, no cutting required on stock fans.  if that will help you, ill open my 360 and snap a pic.

actually i think i got it, its been working for awhile now, and i havent been kicked off live. the fan controller in my previous post is actually for the extra fan i added that blows air in from the side.

[Blazinkaos]

hmmm i been having issues with my xbox with this voltage thing but the fans work well until i installed leds on the sides and seems to be shutting down my xbox after game play. So seems there to much voltage being taken but then i see so many ppl with a lot of fans and theres works fine very weird.

[taylorclark]

little update, The fan has been working great. and i even built a little controller for the fan. heres the link for the fan controller http://www.heatsink-guide.com/content.php?content=control.shtml. Radioshack doesn't have the thermistors anymore, but mouser does. This is the one i bought, http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=334-NTC103-RCvirtualkey21980000virtualkey334-NTC103-RC. it works great, the fan speed increases as the temperature increases, and as the tempature drops, so does the speed of the fan. its better than having your 360 too hot, or sounding like a jet taking off.

[PspKicks316]

Very nice mod! Care to share some pics of the finished product?

[taylorclark]

yeah sure, it'll be awhile tho. i'll try to post pics later tonight

(edit: so i forgot i had this video on my phone. this is the same circuit that is in my 360, but it is being tested in a computer. In the video, all im doing is heating up the thermistor with my fingers and then removing, to allow it to cool down. In my 360, the fan is off when it is first turned on though.
http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l237/Titan501x2/?action=view&current=MOV-0022.flv


and while i was digging around in my photobucket acount, i found this, just for giggles, ill post it. haha enjoy!
)

[PspKicks316]

Pretty sweet. Lol

[PsychoticWolf]

Cool I was Thinking about Adding Fans In my 360 On an external power source..

and while i was digging around in my photobucket acount, i found this, just for giggles, ill post it. haha enjoy!
)

Wtf? 

[taylorclark]

Cool I was Thinking about Adding Fans In my 360 On an external power source..


Wtf? 

why an external power source? the 360 has all the power you could ever want! Plus, if you do it right, it will look really clean and professional, with no extra wires hangin out the back. Just make sure you be really careful when pulling the motherboard out of the metal case, and putting it back in. Make sure your wires don't have a chance to ground to the case, it'll cause rrod and scare you *crap*less. I'll crack my 360 open later today or tomorrow and get some pics of how my leds and fans are wired in. 

and also, that pic is from a work accident about a year ago, 22 stitches. (that pic was taken right before the stitches)

[Blazinkaos]

yea but im still having the issues where mine turns off. also even if i disconnect the fan it still turns of real quick after i put the 360 all together so idk wats up only way it work great is with the bottom panel on and no face plate or top panel..

little update, The fan has been working great. and i even built a little controller for the fan. heres the link for the fan controller http://www.heatsink-guide.com/content.php?content=control.shtml. Radioshack doesn't have the thermistors anymore, but mouser does. This is the one i bought, http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=334-NTC103-RCvirtualkey21980000virtualkey334-NTC103-RC. it works great, the fan speed increases as the temperature increases, and as the tempature drops, so does the speed of the fan. its better than having your 360 too hot, or sounding like a jet taking off.

but.. if i do this u think it may work maybe solve my issues probably.

[taylorclark]

Blazinkaos, im kinda confused with whats going on

[Blazinkaos]

ok i installed a fan where that 3 pin connection is on the mother right infront of the cpu idk u kno bout that connection and there a bridge u have to solder for either 12v or 5v to have the fan run off of so i picked 5 cuz i tried 12 and it would shut of real quick. but even 5 is doing after like 15 min of game play.

[taylorclark]

ok i installed a fan where that 3 pin connection is on the mother right infront of the cpu idk u kno bout that connection and there a bridge u have to solder for either 12v or 5v to have the fan run off of so i picked 5 cuz i tried 12 and it would shut of real quick. but even 5 is doing after like 15 min of game play.

well i think i get what your saying. so you hooked an extra fan to the three pin connector on the original exhaust fan?

[Blazinkaos]

mm no seems ur not quit on track ok here this pic should help.

thats where i connected a 60 mm fan to it was a 3 pin that there a is a 3 pin connection and i solder a connection for the fan to connect to it.

[taylorclark]

hmmm. im not quite sure what to do. hopefully one of the pro's will chime in soon

[Blazinkaos]

yea i already asked one of the admin he didnt kno wat it could be but idk it only works real good with the top cover off and the 60mm disconnected thats the only way i can play.

[taylorclark]

yea i already asked one of the admin he didnt kno wat it could be but idk it only works real good with the top cover off and the 60mm disconnected thats the only way i can play.

try taking the extra fan out then. and then putting it back together

[Blazinkaos]

i tried that
it shut downs right when it gets to the menu.

[taylorclark]

i tried that
it shut downs right when it gets to the menu.

hmm...i have no clue then

[Blazinkaos]

yea i was thinking of disconnecting that bridge point for the 3 pin and then converting my 60mm fan into a usb and see how that goes.. then put it together.

[taylorclark]

yea i was thinking of disconnecting that bridge point for the 3 pin and then converting my 60mm fan into a usb and see how that goes.. then put it together.

its worth a try, its not like you can do anymore damage haha

[Blazinkaos]

well its not damaged is just not cooperating u kno..
like i modded it looks bad so yea

[taylorclark]

well its not damaged is just not cooperating u kno..
like i modded it looks bad so yea

oh i know you didn't damage it, but you really can't do much more harm to it

[Blazinkaos]

yea ok.
well i give an update how well the this goes. hopefully its a success and ill be much happier.

[taylorclark]

yea ok.
well i give an update how well the this goes. hopefully its a success and ill be much happier.

okay *crosses fingers*

[Blazinkaos]

Ok guys good news well i disconnected the 5v jumper on the mobo of the 360 and took my 60mm and convert it to a usb and connect to the back of the 360 and assembled the whole 360 together and it works doesnt shut down at all i played a game for 40 min straight air flow is good. Also i i did wat some ppl have done i place hard paper on the heat sink for more airflow. Seems to be working and ill be making a video and post it up for u guys.

[taylorclark]

Ok guys good news well i disconnected the 5v jumper on the mobo of the 360 and took my 60mm and convert it to a usb and connect to the back of the 360 and assembled the whole 360 together and it works doesnt shut down at all i played a game for 40 min straight air flow is good. Also i i did wat some ppl have done i place hard paper on the heat sink for more airflow. Seems to be working and ill be making a video and post it up for u guys.

okay, sounds good

[Blazinkaos]

Ok guys heres the video check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgcO2rytTNY