RRoD (0102) recurring issue?

[Thorax]

I bought a RRoD'd xbox from a friend a year or two ago that had the error 0102. I did the xclamp fix and it worked the first time. About a year went by without issue. About 3 months ago, it RRoD'd again with the same error (0102). I opened it back up, cleaned the thermal paste off and reapplied it. It worked for about a month, then it RRoD'd again (This time it froze a few times before it RRoD'd). I didn't have time to fix it until last Saturday, to which I did the same thing as before. I played for about an hour Sunday, and 5 hours on Monday (It froze about twice), and about 5 minutes today (Tuesday). It froze, so I went to restart my xbox, but when it turned back on, it RRoD'd (0102).

Any idea if I am doing something wrong when I'm repairing it, or is it something wrong with the xbox?

[FOOKz™]

There's probably nothing wrong with your repair methods. In most cases the 0102 error is caused by a bent motherboard where the solder can not adhere to the PCB anymore because of repeated reflows. Happens to me all the time, its a pain in the arse.

The only real solution to the problem is a rework of the solder under the chip and possibly reinforcing the PCB so it does not bend.

Also if you do not use flux remover after the reflow the underside of the chip has potential to corrode or oxidize because flux has a minute acidity.

[Thorax]

How do I rework the solder?

[FOOKz™]

Go on Youtube and look up Reballing or Reworking. It's interesting stuff. It is probably difficult your first couple times and I bet you could practice on a crap motherboard with surface mount chips and get it right after a few tries.

Basically what is done is the chip is desoldered from the board then they clean the old solder off both chip and PCB with flux and heat. Then balls of solder are applied to a special template that holds the solder bearings which is placed over the chip's cleaned underside and then hot air is applied to the balls which melt on the clean pads of the chip. When that is done the chip and soldered bearings are cooled. The reballed chip now goes on the motherboard and is reflowed so the new solder balls are melted to the PCB therefore soldering the chip to the PCB.

[Rodent]

I bought a RRoD'd xbox from a friend a year or two ago that had the error 0102. I did the xclamp fix and it worked the first time. About a year went by without issue. About 3 months ago, it RRoD'd again with the same error (0102). I opened it back up, cleaned the thermal paste off and reapplied it. It worked for about a month, then it RRoD'd again (This time it froze a few times before it RRoD'd). I didn't have time to fix it until last Saturday, to which I did the same thing as before. I played for about an hour Sunday, and 5 hours on Monday (It froze about twice), and about 5 minutes today (Tuesday). It froze, so I went to restart my xbox, but when it turned back on, it RRoD'd (0102).

Any idea if I am doing something wrong when I'm repairing it, or is it something wrong with the xbox?

I had this problem before with the RROD and a E74 error code, one thing you might want to try when you reflow it is get some no clean flux and there are videos on you tube that show you how to apply it to the GPU and CPU, easier to watch then me trying to explain it. then do the reflow and try and keep the board flat as can be, that should resolve the issue with out having to reball either one. If you keep the heat even the motherboard will flatten out if you heat it evenly .

I hope this helps , it worked for me on xboxes and PS3s

[FOOKz™]

When it really gets down to it the solder might start to "sag" after quite a few reflows, flux helps but its not a guarantee.

[Rodent]

When it really gets down to it the solder might start to "sag" after quite a few reflows, flux helps but its not a guarantee.

Rodent quoted :I hope this helps , it worked for me on xboxes and PS3s


not trying to step on your toes....lol

[Thorax]

Thanks so much. One last question, about how much will this all cost?

[Dcofer]

Well the no clean flux is only $2 so that is cheap but to get the stuff for the reflow can be expensive, Im not sure how much a heat gun runs but I know I spent ~$200 on my reflow station.  I have read posts where people do it with heat guns though you cant control temperature control on most heat guns I have seen.

EDIT: Also if you decide to reflow check out this post by Crazy-Modder https://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php/topic,37530.0.html

[Rodent]

Thanks so much. One last question, about how much will this all cost?

Around
$20 dollars for a griddle from walmart

$60 I paid for a  real good ryobi heat gun at Home depot

Cookie cooling Tray $2 to $5 dollars walmart

No Clean flux $2 to $5 dollars ebay cheapiest

artic silver paste $ 5 to $10 dollars

and as long as you do the RROD repair right , drilling the metal case and the right washers should be fixed for good.

I have fixed so many RRODS that people dont bother to drill the case out and with in 3 months time they wasted there money cuz it RRODs again.

Any more questions feel free to ask

[FOOKz™]

Mogler sent a JTAG to be repaired to me a while ago and I reflowed it and it worked for a week... I sent it back to him and it arrived within 2 days of shipping. When he tried it.... RROD. I guess when its in shipping it rattles around and vibrates the solder connections if they're not good enough. He sent it back and got 0102 AGAIN.. pain in the arse, pinpointed the issue and it was a cold solder joint in the ram because i applied pressure to a chip and it magically works haha.

[Anonamous]

microsoft is cheap, cheap people like making money not spending it, so microsfot uses cheap and crappy solder, therefore you RROD and have to send it into them for repairs, which they will most likely profit from.

[Dcofer]

you cant blame them for cutting corners though, when you are already losing money on each system you produce you try and find ways to make you loss lower, its just   unfortunate that they cut corners on the wrong components. If you don't believe that Microsoft loses money then this is just one article I found on google.
http://www.macworld.com/article/48129/2005/11/xbox360cost.html

At any rate just make sure you do the reflow correctly and try not to cut any corners, I have done this twice and it always fails after 30 hours of game play.  My current fix I did completely with flux and all and it has surpassed my other attempts (originally had E73, then got E74).  Good luck and hopefully you can bring life back to your box.   

[FOOKz™]

they just have to spend $10 more each console to make a thicker PCB. that's really it nothing else too it. They have pretty good solder too. the motherboard is a flimsy POS which in turn cracks the solder after heat warping etc.

Look at your PC's motherboard and compare to the xbox's motherboard thickness.

[Anonamous]

they just have to spend $10 more each console to make a thicker PCB. that's really it nothing else too it. They have pretty good solder too. the motherboard is a flimsy POS which in turn cracks the solder after heat warping etc.

Look at your PC's motherboard and compare to the xbox's motherboard thickness.

hmm... if thats the case, shouldnt we be looking more towards a repair method that involvs somehow making the pcb a bit sturdier. like adding a little extra re-inforcement?

[Rodent]

they just have to spend $10 more each console to make a thicker PCB. that's really it nothing else too it. They have pretty good solder too. the motherboard is a flimsy POS which in turn cracks the solder after heat warping etc.

Look at your PC's motherboard and compare to the xbox's motherboard thickness.

You got that right, I have repaired so many other guys RROD fixes due to they dont take the time to drill out the case and bolt the motherboard right through the case and the heat sinks, with the right stuff and keeping the board flat when heating it, and keeping the motherboard at an even temputare, like crazy-modder shows by using a griddle can solve alot of problems keeping the board flat and at even temputare when doing the reflow.

[jrfhoutx]

if you're going to drill out the case and use it as a support to prevent flex then you need to sand down the standoffs to an even height, this is the cause of the board warpage that causes bad solder joints. bolting the board to an already poorly engineered frame will simply cause the issue to come back and why so many people say it's a temporary fix as long as the area immediately surrounding the chips stays flat then using the case as a support isn't as necessary, this is what the 'modified xclamp fix' attempts to do (or at least add some extra rigidity to the area the chips are in).

I will agree that Xclamps are not the proper solution to the problem and are more a band-aid than anything, but at the same time I have a RROD unit that I performed the xclamp fix on and sanded down the standoffs and it's been running smoothly with no problems for 3 years now... I also had one that I did the xclamp on but didn't sand the standoffs and it went RROD again within 6 months. I had another one that had standoffs sanded down and the xclamp portion of the cage cut out and the original clamps modified to be used as braces and that one was a year old and running strong when I got rid of it. (all three were 0102s)

If you're going to use the griddle then you also need a method to raise the board off of the griddle ~1"... the best solution would be something that you can bolt the board to to prevent warping while heating... and there's no need for a 'cooling tray' just turn the griddle off and leave it there to cool, you don't want a rapid cool down, you want a gradual one, cooling too quickly can warp the board as much as heating too much can...

I would also recommend finding a way to monitor the actual temp of the board while reflowing. an actual temp probe is best (but expensive) or you can use an IR temp gun. you can use a heat gun all you want but regardless of what it's temp reading tells you you need to be able to monitor the temperature of the board itself. most heat guns are so ridiculously inaccurate it's not even funny.

if you plan to spend this much on a setup to do one box then I recommend just sending it out to someone else. if you plan to do more than one, then spend the money for a decent setup and get a real hot air rework station (you can find good ones for $150 and there are plenty of places where you can find preset temp profiles for reworking the chips).



there is no substitute for good equipment, accurate knowledge and proper procedure, and in the end anything else will simply result in failure (maybe not immediately, but eventually) and frustration.

[FOOKz™]

hmm... if thats the case, shouldnt we be looking more towards a repair method that involvs somehow making the pcb a bit sturdier. like adding a little extra re-inforcement?

I've been thinking about an epoxy mold that can fit in and around the chip's base of the PCB... pour the epoxy in a dual-layer mold that fits through the original holes of the PCB... then tapping new threads in the heat sink for smaller bolts.

[Rodent]

WOW jr is writing a book. lol... if done properly, with the right amount of washers and the right thickness , the spacing on the washers that are added, should be pretty close to the stand off. That was one thing I checked on my first RROD fix, didnt want it bowed or bent up or pulled down. causing the solder to break again away from the board.

Also what I have been doing after the RROD fix. before putting the case back on it, I let it warm up really good and go back and check all the screws to make sure there tight and work in a cross pattern when doing this to keep everything tighted evenly so there isnt no problems . has been working for me so far .

Every little tip helps.

one other thing I notice is when placing the board back in is to make sure that the board is all the way down on  the orignal stand offs and the stamped stand offs in the metal casing. If its crooked in there that could cause alot of problems when tighting it up. Could break or crack the board or solder joints under the chips .

Just some things I noticed

[Anonamous]

there is no substitute for good equipment, accurate knowledge and proper procedure, and in the end anything else will simply result in failure (maybe not immediately, but eventually) and frustration.

you forgot money, it will result in loss of money too. God I love this place. So much knowledge all over the place

[jrfhoutx]

WOW jr is writing a book. lol...

yes, as always, that's how I got the custom title "The Long-Winded One" right there under my name, it's there for a reason lol... the reason I stated, no substitute for accurate knowledge. (you can never have too much knowledge, only a lack of implementing it )

if done properly, with the right amount of washers and the right thickness , the spacing on the washers that are added, should be pretty close to the stand off. That was one thing I checked on my first RROD fix, didnt want it bowed or bent up or pulled down. causing the solder to break again away from the board.

That is true to an extent, some of the metal frames had several stand offs of varying heights (the earlier versions of the case, granted there are far fewer of them out there, but they are still out there and I see some from time to time...) and it doesn't matter how many washers you put in they won't match the standoff properly and will still result in board flex.

you forgot money, it will result in loss of money too. God I love this place. So much knowledge all over the place

Ah, yes, the most important one, how could I have forgotten waste of money! oh and now that I think of it a waste of time, too!

[FOOKz™]

if you have ripped apart a laptop and have you ever noticed that steel brace on the PCB holding the CPU to the board in there? they need that.

[Anonamous]

if you have ripped apart a laptop and have you ever noticed that steel brace on the PCB holding the CPU to the board in there? they need that.

they just need a liquid cooled one. an official one

[DARk_ANGEL]

i think you should reflow or re ball