Author Topic: XB1 Controller PCB Scans, Traces and Info - 1537 (Read 317671 times)

jortizval · « **Reply #90 on:** August 07, 2015, 08:07:21 PM »

Ok thank you for the head up about yellow with black dot and plain yellow. I found out that in one of the tiny holes/black dots in Y trace i cant pass a tiny wire through to get continuity and i think thats the problem where Y trace dont have continuity. All Y trace looks good and j6 is ok too but the black dot where i cant pass a tiny wire there is where the trace stop having continuity. Is there anyway i can "clean" or or make something to be able to pass a tiny wire through that black dot so i can get continuity in that point or im screwed?

RDC · « **Reply #91 on:** August 08, 2015, 08:03:37 AM »

If the Via is bad you can prep both sides, drill it out with a very tiny drill bit and run a small enough wire thru it and solder on both sides to restore it, but it's rare for them to go bad in the first place, so make 100% sure that you are checking the correct Via on the other side of the board. You can also just jumper wire the trace from the Via on top to the bottom instead, it's not as pretty since it's a longer wire, but it works just the same.

jortizval · « **Reply #92 on:** August 09, 2015, 02:05:07 AM »

Ok tyvm, i didnt have a tiny drill bit on hand so i used another tiny wire with sharp end to "drill" the hole and managed to pass its edge through the other side of the mcu board, apparently there was an obstruction, now i can pass a tiny wire through the hole and when checked continuity i need to do what you said about solder a tiny wire on both sides since when checked there is continuity from the top side to the bottom side on that specific point so the tiny wire would work as a jumper within the board and as you said too it will look better/pretty than a jumper wire from top to bottom. So apparently this is one of those rare cases where it go bad

but ty for your help/knowledge if i get any other issues ill let you know. Youre the best RDC

XboxAddicted · « **Reply #93 on:** August 25, 2015, 04:18:29 PM »

HI RDC I just scanned all the thread and I didn't find what I'm looking for.

I'm lefties and I need a way to swap the left stick with the right stick.

My initial thought is to cut the white pads from the rest of the copper line (the ones with the red and blue X and Y marks) and solder the left stick X pad to the right stick copper line and viceversa. The same for the Y pad.

1) Do you think it can be works?
2) Do you suggest a better approach?

Thanks for any help you may give

Vincenzo
Milan Italy

RDC · « **Reply #94 on:** August 25, 2015, 05:08:43 PM »

Hey Vincenzo,

That's pretty much exactly what you have to do, and if you have the 1697 board with the 3.5mm Headset jack, then it's even harder to do as the traces are not easy to get at.

But, here is the problem with doing that. These controllers are very, very picky about having the Analog lines swapped around like that as they seem to be calibrated after they are made, and none of those 4 lines are exactly the same. Occasionally you get a controller where they are close enough and swapping the lines around doesn't do anything that you will notice, but most of them are not like that. So you will most likely end up with one or more Stick directions drifting (moving very slow on it's own) or not having the full range that it originally did.

You can do the 4 trace cuts and then it's a 4 wire deal to swap the lines so it's a SouthPaw controller, or 6 cuts and 6 wires if you need LSC/RSC also swapped, but then be prepared to fiddle with it a bit to get it working 100% in every game. By fiddle I mean you may need to desolder the 3 leads of the POT, remove it, cut the posts from it (not the clips that hold it in place) so that you can then rotate it a very slight amount to get it in that perfect spot where the controller 'thinks' that nothing has changed.

I had a project in the works to deal with the offset issue that happens, and to also just be a full Stick swapper so the controller had all 4 layouts available, but I've put it on the back burner for awhile now and am not sure if I'll finish it up. It's a small PCB that gets wired up between the Sticks and board.

M$ needs to address this with a recalibration routine, Nintendo did decades ago, as even swapping the Sticks out in these controllers for new ones after the old ones break or have worn out can give you the exact same headache.

XboxAddicted · « **Reply #95 on:** August 26, 2015, 02:47:21 AM »

Thanks for the quick reply!

And what about to put in the 4 analog lines a 10 Ohm micro trimmer to adjust the resistance value of the stick potentiometers?

was also thinking to use un analog switch IC like the ADG1634 with a small push button able to switch configuration.[mod]please do not double post. Use the modify tab, thanks.[/mod]

RDC · « **Reply #96 on:** August 26, 2015, 09:29:55 AM »

You could use something like the ADG for that, but, all you'll do there is switch between one layout that works good, and one layout that might be offset and not work that great.

The only way installing trimmers will do anything is if you get it on one side or the other of the existing POT, and it has to be on the side that needs the trimming, unless you plan to put one on each side for a total of 8 trimmers, there's no way I'd go thru all of that. Putting the trimmer in the middle on the Wiper line will do noting at all, and using them with the switch IC means that you will have to adjust them every time that you change Stick layouts.

The board I was working on did all of that automatically and saved the offsets, so no adjusting mess needed to be done when switching around, but it also had a manual mode for adjusting it up if a new Stick were ever installed or it just needed tweaking. I really should dust that project off.

XboxAddicted · « **Reply #97 on:** August 26, 2015, 10:31:22 AM »

Quote from: RDC on August 26, 2015, 09:29:55 AM

You could use something like the ADG for that, but, all you'll do there is switch between one layout that works good, and one layout that might be offset and not work that great.

The only way installing trimmers will do anything is if you get it on one side or the other of the existing POT, and it has to be on the side that needs the trimming, unless you plan to put one on each side for a total of 8 trimmers, there's no way I'd go thru all of that. Putting the trimmer in the middle on the Wiper line will do noting at all, and using them with the switch IC means that you will have to adjust them every time that you change Stick layouts.

Yes, you are right!

The board I was working on did all of that automatically and saved the offsets, so no adjusting mess needed to be done when switching around, but it also had a manual mode for adjusting it up if a new Stick were ever installed or it just needed tweaking. I really should dust that project off.

You have to !!!
I just bought The Witcher 3 and it does not have any Southpawn layout.

By the way I starting now to open my controller and cut the lines...
Let's see what is going to happen!!!

RDC · « **Reply #98 on:** August 26, 2015, 05:40:11 PM »

You may get them all swapped and never notice a thing, some controllers are just more picky from the tolerances of everything in them. Then it may work great in one game, but drift in another, as no two of those are coded the same way either. Be interesting to hear how yours works there on the main game for doing it, then on some other games for comparison.

I've dug the code back out for my stick swapper board project and am starting to go back over all of that as well.

It covers all 4 of the Stick layouts, plus swapping the LSC/RSC buttons, so it has a total of 8 possible layouts.

Default
Default with LSC/RSC swapped
SouthPaw
Southpaw with LSC/RSC swapped
Legacy
Legacy with LSC/RSC swapped
Legacy-SouthPaw
Legacy-SouthPaw with LSC/RSC swapped

Some of those are debatable to leave in, as only 1 person in a million might use it, but I'd rather it cover at least all of those bases. I'd also considered adding in an Inversion per axis option, but then you get into a huge number of layouts and cycling thru them all is just more of a pain and by then it's easier to have some external interface to set everything up, and I'm not about to get into that again for now.

I may just do a stripped down version, where it's only..

Default
SouthPaw
SouthPaw with LSC/RSC swapped

..as then there are only 3 layouts to cycle thru, but it's still in the 'eh' category of my piles of projects and who knows how it might turn out if/when it even does.

thewarners777 · « **Reply #99 on:** August 30, 2015, 08:35:12 PM »

Can you use c38 and c36 for rapid fire points?

RDC · « **Reply #100 on:** August 31, 2015, 04:32:09 AM »

Yes, those spots can be used for LT/RT, just like it says in the first post.

thewarners777 · « **Reply #101 on:** August 31, 2015, 07:10:52 PM »

I haven't seen anyone use those points for rapid fire. I have only seen the via or the other points under where the rt and lt hit when pressed. C38 and c36 are easier points to solder too eventhough they are on different MB's. Thanks for your reply

RDC · « **Reply #102 on:** September 01, 2015, 02:05:51 AM »

SethMods installation instructions do.

C36 and C38 are on the same PCB.

thewarners777 · « **Reply #103 on:** September 01, 2015, 10:02:18 AM »

Sorry when I said different pcb's I meant c36 and c38 are not on the the same PCB as a,b,X and y. Most rf chips use a and b and mount the chip on the PCB without c36 and c38.

Either way I appreciate your responses and your amazing scans. It's nice to know there are options for rt and lt

RDC · « **Reply #104 on:** September 01, 2015, 10:24:50 AM »

No problem, but every button is on the main board there with LT and RT. It has the MCU, and everything goes to it. B is the only button that is technically 'on' the PCB as it's contacts are there, but ABXY and everything else are right there at the J5 and J6 connectors.

fevera1985 · « **Reply #105 on:** September 14, 2015, 05:52:01 PM »

Would you happen to know where does the Mic spots are on the controller PCB board ?
for example. the Mic spots and the speaker spots ?

Quote from: RDC on December 21, 2013, 08:20:00 PM

PLAY & CHARGE CABLE

The PnC cable has a Bi-Color (Amber/White) LED in it for showing the charging/charged state of the PnC Pack, along with a few other components and a 4-layer PCB.

Pin 4 of the microUSB connector is used for changing the LED, 0v = Amber, 3.3v = White.

PnC CABLE

HEADSET

The Headset connector this go around uses a 12 pin connector, that will more than likely do plenty more before all is said and done as it's overkill. The connector has the Audio Codec chip, a Texas Instruments TLV320AIC3204 and a PICLF26K22 inside it along with other support components for doing signal processing.

HEADSET AUDIO BOARD TOP

HEADSET AUDIO BOARD BOTTOM

The Microphone and Speaker connections, wire colors, at least for now, are..

GND = Ground, Copper
MIC = Microphone, White
HPR = Headphone Right, Black, Speaker -
HPL = Headphone Left, Blue, Speaker +

RDC · « **Reply #106 on:** September 14, 2015, 06:05:31 PM »

There are no Mic/Speaker spots on the main PCB of the 1537 version controller, because that Headset connector is all Digital. The Headset adapter there does the Digital to Analog conversion (for the Mic/Speaker spots) so they don't even exist on the main PCB.

The newer 1697 version controller does have Mic/Speaker locations, as it has the 3.5mm Headset jack on the main board, but the 1537 here does not have them, you have to use the Headset adapter.

mdmonroe · « **Reply #107 on:** November 25, 2015, 10:52:10 AM »

Hey RDC I just began working on a 1697 model controller and am having trouble finding the GROUND points... I see you listed some TP's with the scans, I'm wondering if you know any that are definitely ground or if I'd have better luck wiring the ground from the front of the J5 or J6 ground points.

Thanks

RDC · « **Reply #108 on:** November 25, 2015, 12:17:09 PM »

Any of the 8 lugs for the Sticks are all ground and are easy enough to use. I've also updated the 1697 thread with a couple of GND TPs.

mdmonroe · « **Reply #109 on:** November 25, 2015, 02:38:37 PM »

Are you indicating that TP 21 & TP 111 are ground points using "GND"?

I actually tried TP 21 as a ground and lost function of the button I was attempting to remap until I removed it from the TP 21 point.

RDC · « **Reply #110 on:** November 25, 2015, 03:02:39 PM »

Then you did something wrong, because TP21 on both the 1537 and 1697 versions of the board is GrouND.

kuhruby · « **Reply #111 on:** November 30, 2015, 10:22:42 PM »

Hey RDC, I bought an xbox 360 controller from you years ago that had a switch to enable Legacy controls on the fly. I want to thank you for your excellent work. You mentioned that it isn't practical to attempt that kind of mod on the xbox one controller, because of the way the stick modules are calibrated from the factory. However, when it comes to just replacing the stick modules outright, because of drift, etc, will the same problems arise? If not, which modules (brand, I guess) do you recommend I use? Thanks again.

RDC · « **Reply #112 on:** November 30, 2015, 11:27:33 PM »

Welcome.

You will more than likely have the same issues when swapping sticks as they will be a shade off from what the originals were. Now you very well could get lucky and the replacements are close enough that there is no drift, but the odds are slim on that unless you go thru a few different ones or take the time to tweak them, as it really doesn't take very much change at all to throw them off.

I keep putting the stick/button swapper project on the back burner, as it's already a witch to install, and for a Default/Legacy only controller that thing would be overkill anyway, but in order to really do that properly you'd need something like it so it could correct that offset difference of a new and/or swapped stick, so it keeps everything working correctly.

You can always cut the traces and do a Legacy layout, and the worst case there is it drifts and then you just rewire it back to stock so it's not a total loss. Best case is it works, which is possible, but it's for sure not guaranteed.

When it comes to installing new sticks, you're either going to have to get a few sets and play the install, test and possibly reinstall game one or several times, or install a new set with the posts cut from the POTs (not the tabs that clip them onto the frame) so you can tweak them (tilt ever so slightly) to get everything lined up like the originals were, which is far less fun than it sounds.

Modded Matt · « **Reply #113 on:** December 01, 2015, 05:20:04 AM »

I had no issues installing the stick swapper and it worked fine with the one mode and offset correction.

RDC · « **Reply #114 on:** December 01, 2015, 09:05:51 AM »

Neither do I, and it wasn't your first rodeo either.

But for anyone that hasn't soldered or hacked up traces it would be a bit of a pain to install.

This is far from what I'd consider a clean install, it's just installed so I could do more testing, but it shows that it's not exactly a couple of wires and you're done kind of thing.

kuhruby · « **Reply #115 on:** December 01, 2015, 04:18:31 PM »

Thanks for the responses. I already swapped out the stick modules a couple of weeks ago on my Day One edition controller, because of drifting. I'm surprised it lasted that long. I haven't noticed any drift, but I've only been playing Halo 5, and Fallout 4 (so nauseating to play Fallout 4 with default sticks).

How can I check the center offset on this controller? Do I need to hook it up to a PC and use a certain program? I'm still confused on what exactly needs to be adjusted on the modules if you're trying to correct offset. Would you mind explaining that part with a few more details, please?

Also, I just bought the Lunar White edition controller and would like to ultimately keep it, and the Day One edition for a long time, just replacing the stick modules as they wear. It seems as though the buttons and triggers will last significantly longer. Are you currently selling those "stick swapper" boards? I may consider them, just to correct the new module offset, if/when I install others.

By the way, these are the modules that I used. Are there better ones out there?

RDC · « **Reply #116 on:** December 01, 2015, 05:04:13 PM »

The game is also as much a part of how picky the drift is also, as some will be fine then others will have it.

The best way to tell what the stick values are is with a Cronus and using the Device Monitor in it.

About the only thing you can do without getting into a PIC and DAC setup like the stick swapper is to mechanically adjust the center position by tilting the POT on the stick frame. Desolder the POT, unclip it from the frame and you'll see it has small posts in 3 of the corners. Use and X-acto knife and cut all of them off. Clip the POT back onto the frame and now it has some play in it where you can tilt (turn) it. Once the stick is reinstalled, you can adjust the POT a little before soldering it in place. How much you tilt/turn it determines where the Wiper sits, and thus the center value. It's tedious and not much fun to go thru all that a few times to get it sorted, but it works.

I'm not currently making any of the stick swapper boards, as I keep putting that on the back burner and with the 1697 out now I'll need to redesign the PCB or make another version for it to make installing a bit easier.

The original sticks are Alps, but as they end up failing at some point as well no one is really any better than the other there.

guestieboy · « **Reply #117 on:** January 06, 2016, 02:19:24 AM »

Great uploads RDC thanks for this,
Im hoping someone can point me in the right direction to what component I need to check, basically the controller wont turn on and when the usb is connected it gets very hot on the top board near
U1+U3 area.
Any help guys would be much appreciated son's doing my nut in

RDC · « **Reply #118 on:** January 06, 2016, 07:51:08 AM »

Welcome.

With no history on the controller at all, that's not going to be something anyone can pinpoint, and I haven't had any, or anyone send me bad ones to check out, so I've no idea what might be common issues on these things yet.

U1 knocks the USB 5v down for U2 and U3 to use.
U2 does the 3.5v for the LED, IR LEDs and Motor power.
U3 does the 3.3v for everything on the MCU board.

The first thing you should do, if done that is, is to undo whatever you or anyone else has done in there, as that is where 99% of most controller problems come from.

About the only easy thing you can test there is to remove the battery and use just the USB cable and see what happens, after that you need to get into board swapping and then real troubleshooting to find the culprit.

Another thing you might try is to unplug the Power board from the MCU board and plug up the USB cable to it. It's not a very conclusive test, but if U1, U2 or U3 gets hot then, then you for sure have an issue on the Power board there as with it unplugged from the MCU board none of it should be working except U1, and it would only be lukewarm at best.

If you have another controller, you can swap the Power boards between them and see if the issue is still there or not.

If the problem goes away, the Power board is most likely at fault and needs looked at.

If the problem stays the same, then the problem is most likely on the MCU board and could be a vast number of things, most of which would not be economical at all to repair.

That comes with the risk of possibly tanking the board you are using for the testing, so that method has it's risks.

An alternative to the board swapping is to take the working controller and measure everything you can inside of it, then compare it to the one that is not working. Far more tedious and isn't always the best at narrowing down where the actual fault is. It also requires knowing a bit about what you're testing and how it should be acting.

Either way, once you get it narrowed down to which board is the issue, then you'll be poking around in there with the DMM and using a power supply to inject voltages here and there and check things, all in all not something the typical gamer is setup to be doing.

If you're in the US, and would like to send it to me shoot me a PM, I'd like to take a crack at it. I can't guarantee I can fix it, but I will find out where the issue with it is, and then everyone will know for any future problems.

Umbra · « **Reply #119 on:** March 02, 2016, 03:16:45 PM »

Quote from: RDC on January 06, 2016, 07:51:08 AM

Welcome.

With no history on the controller at all, that's not going to be something anyone can pinpoint, and I haven't had any, or anyone send me bad ones to check out, so I've no idea what might be common issues on these things yet.

U1 knocks the USB 5v down for U2 and U3 to use.
U2 does the 3.5v for the LED, IR LEDs and Motor power.
U3 does the 3.3v for everything on the MCU board.

The first thing you should do, if done that is, is to undo whatever you or anyone else has done in there, as that is where 99% of most controller problems come from.

About the only easy thing you can test there is to remove the battery and use just the USB cable and see what happens, after that you need to get into board swapping and then real troubleshooting to find the culprit.

Another thing you might try is to unplug the Power board from the MCU board and plug up the USB cable to it. It's not a very conclusive test, but if U1, U2 or U3 gets hot then, then you for sure have an issue on the Power board there as with it unplugged from the MCU board none of it should be working except U1, and it would only be lukewarm at best.

If you have another controller, you can swap the Power boards between them and see if the issue is still there or not.

If the problem goes away, the Power board is most likely at fault and needs looked at.

If the problem stays the same, then the problem is most likely on the MCU board and could be a vast number of things, most of which would not be economical at all to repair.

That comes with the risk of possibly tanking the board you are using for the testing, so that method has it's risks.

An alternative to the board swapping is to take the working controller and measure everything you can inside of it, then compare it to the one that is not working. Far more tedious and isn't always the best at narrowing down where the actual fault is. It also requires knowing a bit about what you're testing and how it should be acting.

Either way, once you get it narrowed down to which board is the issue, then you'll be poking around in there with the DMM and using a power supply to inject voltages here and there and check things, all in all not something the typical gamer is setup to be doing.

If you're in the US, and would like to send it to me shoot me a PM, I'd like to take a crack at it. I can't guarantee I can fix it, but I will find out where the issue with it is, and then everyone will know for any future problems.

I'm trying to get some assistance with a controller. It seems like this is the most active and knowledgeable forum addressing it, so I thought I'd ask here.

A friend was trying to swap the color of her guide/home button LED to blue. She burned off one of the traces and asked if I could take a look at it. I was able to fix it. The video guide she sent me had the LED light up when the top board was connected to the bottom board and powered via USB. I'd also noticed that it would light up when pressed without the bottom board. Anyway, she takes the top board and asks me to do another with an orange LED leaving me with the bottom board for testing (I don't have an xbox one or any controllers).

Here's where it gets messy. I swapped the LED, but it doesn't light up when powered via USB (connected to a 5V 1A phone charger) either when pressing the button or with the lower board connected, unlike the first. I've soldered and resoldered tinkering with it for hours until I'd eventually worn through the connections and had to use lamp wire to connect it to the back. I've also messed with the button traces to make sure those were connecting. The LED works when getting power via multimeter either touching it directly or touching the contacts of the next component in either direction.

To make matters worse, I ordered another board from a guy on ebay with the LED already swapped and that light also works with the multimeter, but it doesn't light up either way when powered via USB.

I've swapped the outlet, power adapter, and cable.

My current theory is:

A) there are multiple variations of boards. The one on controller A would light up when pressed without the lower board, but not the top board from controller B. Controller B's top board and the third top board doesn't work with the bottom board from controller A, but controller A's top board works with B's bottom board (because that's what she ended up doing and it works for her).

It seems neither lower board has a 3.5mm jack. I know that was a second version of the controller.

When that second board arrived and it didn't respond like I'd anticipated I was really stumped.

I only quoted you to hopefully notify you, as you definitely seem to have extensive knowledge of these controllers. If anyone has any ideas, please chime in because I'm really at a loss.

Thank you.

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Author Topic: XB1 Controller PCB Scans, Traces and Info - 1537 (Read 317671 times)