prototype board questions.

[WHITE 4ND N3RDY]

Hey everyone I wanted to ask the community advice about how to go about getting my own prototype boards made?

I've seen other members here have done so and I want to know what company can make the boards I have in mind. Do I just draw a schmatic of where I want my traces to be + dimensions size? I want something similar like kingmikes dual 12f chip board but for a regular size 12f series chips.

So if anyone can point me in the right direction of how and who to make this happen if appreciate it. Thanks.

[RDC]

PCB fab houses need Gerber files to make a PCB. There are several fab houses that can make them, but they're not going to do the design work for you. There are other places that can, but it would cost far more than just learning how to do it yourself.

DipTrace, Eagle, AutoTrax Dex, KiCad and a ton of other PCB design software are used for designing up a PCB and then exporting the Gerber files.

OSHPark is one of the better places right now to get a few PCBs made up, but there are plenty of fab houses around as well and it really depends on what you're needing as to which one is better suited to make the boards.

[GhoSt]

+1 for Oshpark. The free version of eagle will do you for most small personal projects, plus oshpark is optimized for eagle files, you can upload the project files directly.

Plus they are really cheap considering you get soldermask, plated via's, and a top layer silkscreen. I got a board made without any previous eagle experience, it's relatively easy to use.


You start with a schematic, and then create a board, it automatically transfers your component's footprints and a continuity net. All you have to do is set the boundaries of your PCB, lay out the components and go about routing traces.

[WHITE 4ND N3RDY]

Thanks for both your inputs! I'll post my boards as soon as I make and receive them.

I did some research myself and was looking at a company called pad2pad. They have a computer generator app that is easy to make your board schematics. After that its just a matter of specifying how u want the layers, ect.

I have to wait till later today to see what they charge. My computer is way too old to be up to date with there downloaded app for building a board schematics so I have to make a trip to my parents house and use their computer.

If its too expensive I'll check out your two recommendations! My board will be relatively easy to draw/build. Its has no resistors at. Its just going to trace one 12f1822 chip's V, ground, led, LT & RT pins to another 12f1822 chip then have solder pad connections for V, G, Led, LT, RT then will have 6 more solder pads for the two pins on each individual 12f1822 that tie to the button connections of a XB1 controller & 2 pads for 2 tact switches.

Basically it will clone one chip to power the other and eliminate running multiple awg wire to one connection. It will be like wiring one 12f chip with 3 extra pins. This way I can run dual modes at one time with simple wiring with a professional look.

I've been making XB1 mods and am seriously considering marketing my own diy chip set. I will start on eBay and will do 25 boards. I want to see if they will sell and if they do I'll start to market more boards and chips. I got a lot of cool mods made but in order to compete I need to be able to run dual mods that co work with one another.

So thats that in a nut shell. When im done with all of this I'll update everyone. When this is a reality I'll go RBST here and sell my chip sets cheaper to regesterd acid mod members that are active and have a post count higher than 30!

[RDC]

Remember that no matter what place does the PCBs, the bigger they are, the more they're going to cost. Some places don't like doing runs of a few boards either, which is another reason OSH is good.

If you're going to use the SOIC-8 package, the PCB shouldn't really need to be more than 14mm x 16mm, and that's with 14 pads for wiring that are 1mm x 1.5mm, which are more than large enough for the wire you'd be using. Three PCBs from OSH that size would run you $1.70, or $15.30 for 27 of them as since they have to be ordered in multiples of 3. You're not going to get that kind of price at pad2pad. Shipping is free, or can be upgraded and OSHPark's turn around time is 2-3 weeks with them.

That PCB would look something like this..

[WHITE 4ND N3RDY]

With the SOIC 8's, are these for regular size 12f chips? Not smaller versions of the normal microchips?

For me the the smaller the board the better but I want to make sure the solder pads on the board for the chip legs match normal 12f1822 I/P microchips. I measure the XB1 board where I want to mount and my board can be max size of 1 1/8'' vertical & 1 '' horizontal. I necessarily dont want it that size if I can go smaller. The board u posted would be ideal for my application though it can do away with P5 & P6.

[zbblanton]

I know I don't post much on here anymore but I keep up to date and I had to reply to this thread because of my great customer satifaction from http://smart-prototyping.com/PCB-Prototyping.html

I got 10, 2 layer boards for only $32.00, including shipping. The boards are about 95.25mm by 95.25mm (3.75in by 3.75in). It took exactly 16 days to arrive to me (in America). The boards turned out perfect and couldn't be any happier.

I used KiCAD to design the boards then just uploaded them to the site and that was it. So I highly recommend them because if you mess up, at least your not out a ton of money.

[WHITE 4ND N3RDY]

Im in the process of building my board as I type. I have the board all built to my required specifications. The only hangup I have right now is Im using 12f1822 I/P microchips ( 2 to be exact ). RDC mentioned using a 8 SOIC package but Im afraid my programmer wont be able to program these smaller chips. I already have the above chips mentioned in my possession (12f1822 I/P), so my question is if I select the 8 pin dip option will that be the correct application for the chips I poses for my board build?   

[GhoSt]

The I/P chips are through hole components (DIP-8), you have to use a through-hole footprint for them on the board. The SOIC package is about the easiest surface mount package to use with DIY equipment, as you mentioned you can't program it easily by popping it into a programmer: Three things you can do about this, Design your circuit for ICSP (google), or pinout the 5 programming lines somewhere on your board (so you can install the chip and program before adding anymore components), or you can directly solder wires to the SOIC-8 pic and plug them into your dip programmer (program the chip before putting it on the board).

The through-hole chips are massive compared to the SMD equivalents, especially in height once soldered on.
options for 12f683:

• DIP-8: Through-hole mounted, large footprint, good for breadboarding/prototyping.
• SOIC-8: Surface mounted (the package used on my board above), reduced footprint, still easy enough to work with at home.
• DFN-8: Surface mounted, smallest footprint, no extended legs for soldering, more difficult to work with at home (but not impossible).

[WHITE 4ND N3RDY]

Thanks Ghost! Im going to go with the DIP package. Im not worried about clearance issues as well I already have a lot of 12f1822 I/P chips. The program Im using for my schematics asked what component I wanted to use so I clicked DIP then selected 8 pin. I would assume this will accommodate my 12F I/P chips?   

So when u say through holes does that mean the board will have drilled holes all the way through where I would mount my chips through? Or would it be like a surface mount but surface pads more spaced apart to accommodate for the larger chip?

If anyone can answer this id appreciate it. Im holding out buying till I figure this out! 

[GhoSt]

It will have holes drilled through the board, so the chip sits on top and you solder the pins on the other side of the board.

Or if you have even more height to spare, you can add a dip socket so the chip can be removed and reprogrammed ect.

[RDC]

If you're using DIP there's not really much point in having a PCB then, just stack them, connect the commons and bend the other leads out for wiring.

The pinout for the SOIC and DIP are the same.

There's not much point in doing the board up for ICSP when everything is broken out to pads, unless some of the ICSP pins are bussed. You could just use a header with wires on it soldered to the correct pads and program them that way, which is a little more time consuming, but works.

Best thing to do here is you can get a socket for programming the SOIC-8 for around $3 from China and make an adapter board to plug up to your programmer for next to nothing, or from spare parts on hand, so the PICs can be flashed before soldering them to the PCB.

[WHITE 4ND N3RDY]

Well I went ahead and ordered 50 boards!. Here is a crude picture of the board schematics.


The board dimensions are width 0.838in height 0.959in.

[RDC]

What footprint did you use? There are a few SOIC-8 ones, 150mil, 209mil and 300mil. That PCB size seems big for the 2 chips and such small TP spots you have, so something is off there, or the actual design has a lot of wasted space.

[WHITE 4ND N3RDY]

I went with pad2pad co. They have a downloaded software to build the footprint. I went with 2 8 pin dips and there surface mount pads. I'm a total noob at this but everything should work. I used there software where I just drew the connections and it auto routed all the traces for me. I had to adjust the connections around as I was getting error readings saying the traces were to close to the edge of the board. The size I have now fits perfect in the mounting position I want the chip to sit in. The only thing I dident like was the size of the surface mount pads that tie to the traces. I dident want to go the hole mount method as it was more expensive. The board is like $2.50 as it is.

[RDC]

If you mean the DIP8 SMD pattern, then that's why the PCB is so big. That's not going to work for the SOIC-8 package as it's far too large, and it means more work as you'll have to cut or bend the leads of the DIP package before soldering them to that board.

Interested in seeing how those turn out though. I used PCB123 years and years ago, but being into their format and having to order from them ruined that and I only had one PCB made using that app and service.

Redid the PCB for fun after seeing your pinout, 14mm x 15mm and rounded the corners, cause it just looks nice. At OSH they would be $26.35 for 51 of them.

[WHITE 4ND N3RDY]

Yea I dident go SOIC because I already have all my chips. This is just a trial of sorts to see bow they will sell. I priced my cost of materials and if I move 50 units of my mods for XB1 I can make 1000$ profit. I have a great paying job but I'd like to make some sweet side cash as well, especially doing stuff I love to do!

[GhoSt]

I had no idea surface mount footprints for dip chips were even a thing :P.
By my guesstimate it will require ~6mm vertical clearance, did you have a location in mind for installing the board.

[WHITE 4ND N3RDY]

Yea I mapped the mounting spot and it has great clearance!

[RDC]

There are DIP SMD, DIP Gull Wing is one of the more common names, but it's not a commonly used package anymore as SOIC and the smaller ones are now. The 12F1822 isn't made in it, but can be made to fit that footprint. It's really just a DIP package, but has shorter leads that bend out a little bit. Photo/Opto Couplers are some of the components that are still made in that package.

[WHITE 4ND N3RDY]

So I canceled my order and made revisions to my board schematics. I went with two (through hole) 8 dip package and dill hole pads. Here is a pic of the new schematic. I haven't submitted it yet. I was debating if I should erase the www.acidmods.com print to skinny up the board more. All in all that much space dissent make a big difference in price. What do u all think?

[Gizmo613]

if its not a big difference in price then leave it there. and thats a nice board you designed there. good work.

[WHITE 4ND N3RDY]

Ok so everyone knows the schematic two bumps up I had to redo. Pin 6 & 7 I had in reverse order. Some how when I re did my traces my RT lettering got placed underneath a trace that would of caused a short. The CAD software dident pick it out but received a email stating the problem and order was canceled and I had to re due the board. So here is the final final board revision and finished board schematics!



So I decided to give credit and respect to all the people that helped me with my mods! I feel this is a great PCB board and I'll be proud to market it as so!