Author Topic: Internet Identification System (Read 10317 times)

TwisTtheTwiTcH · « **on:** April 15, 2011, 05:44:32 PM »

Earlier on the 15th of April the presidential administration under United States President Barack Obama announced that the plan for installing a broad identification system on the internet, regardless of the concerns about “identity centralization”.

Commerce Secretary Gary Locke stated that there is "no reliable way to verify identity online" at the current point in time. This is a reference to the rising threat of internet security with all the malware and identity theft scams that have become ever so popular among internet delinquents. “Passwords just won’t cut it here.”

An event that was hosted by the United States Chamber of Commerce featured a speech about the upcoming project, which miraculously downplayed the concerns about civil liberties such as privacy. Although it appears that this wouldn’t be required by Americans that use the internet.

A fifty-five page PDF file was released earlier that gives more details about the new proposal, although the details are still very vague and incoherent to anybody that isn’t well versed in political law.

The plan is to begin pilot projects next year.

-TwisTtheTwiTcH

whitetop · « **Reply #1 on:** April 16, 2011, 05:10:23 AM »

so would this be just for Americans or for the globe ??

TwisTtheTwiTcH · « **Reply #2 on:** April 16, 2011, 09:21:55 AM »

Quote from: whitetop on April 16, 2011, 05:10:23 AM

so would this be just for Americans or for the globe ??

Yes it would be limited to America... For now.

-TwisT

1TONpete · « **Reply #3 on:** April 16, 2011, 09:34:08 AM »

Wow twist . This is gravely concerning to me. Civil liberties anyone?

geraldrubalcava · « **Reply #4 on:** April 16, 2011, 09:46:21 AM »

Ehhh Privacy. Dam.

jrfhoutx · « **Reply #5 on:** April 16, 2011, 10:48:32 AM »

How is this any different than being required by law to have and carry government issued ID, and to show it when asked by law enforcement, to prove your identity? besides this isn't even requiring you to actually participate, by the wording it's voluntary...

TwisTtheTwiTcH · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2011, 12:09:51 PM »

They are being very vague so who knows what it'll actually turn into. However the ID card factor is a very very good comparison. I am indifferent to this topic really. I don't care if the Government monitors what I do on the internet, the whole "invasion of privacy" argument is a joke. It isn't like some guy named Bob or a lady named Sue is sitting there watching what I am doing. It can be on a hard drive somewhere, they'd be quite bored to see what I do on the internet.

It's whenever people get paranoid about being watched that they become defensive, have some faith in what your doing if you must do something wrong. I always make sure it is highly unlikely that I can be caught without some reasonable doubt when I have to do anything questionable. The Government can do what they want to do, as they often will do it one way or another in some form if not the original proposal. So it is survival of the fittest. Just don't get caught and keep it simple.

-TwisT

jrfhoutx · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2011, 12:43:30 PM »

I pretty much agree with you there twist, if you're not committing a crime, then what do you truly have to worry about?

I also agree with you on the "invasion of privacy" issue, it seems as though every restriction that the government tries to put in place people cry fowl on grounds of "invasion of privacy" even when no such threat exists. I honestly think I think far too many people are confusing privacy with anonymity, and the two are not synonymous. while one's right to privacy may be implied (though not specifically stated, the right has been ruled on many occasions by the supreme court to be an implied right) in the constitution, there is no right to or guarantee of anonymity in our country or in society in general. In fact quite the opposite, some form of proof of identity is required to do nearly everything now...

[HoP] · « **Reply #8 on:** April 16, 2011, 01:24:59 PM »

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

read up on what the constitution has to offer.

The constitution is to protect the people. When the people are not happy, they can overthrow the government.

the issue is corruption in any government. People who have more money than they can do anything with stop craving money and start craving power. Power is only so gratifying. corruption sets in because it gives them that feeling of knowing that they are doing something wrong and not getting caught doing it. they start to believe in the corruption, and let loose to the things that should be. Because the government is so powerful and has control of the things that we rely on, they can shape reaction and cause outcomes to be in their favor.

9/11 is a prime example. but I'm not going to argue with the people that don't think that it was a setup, because the government already has you.

for 2010 the government removed the gift tax

in 2010 the housing market was hurting

in 2010 there were some very large "gifts" that transferred hands

terrorism causes less deaths than smoking, but you don't see a worldwide stop to smoking

if every person in America had a gun, what would the crime rate be? i doubt that you would rob a store knowing that you are 1 person and that there are 50 other people there with guns.

if you choose not to wear a seat belt and you die, that is your decision. why would you be fined for making a decision on your life...

The point that i am making is that there are lots of things wrong with everything that is going on. the government controls by fear. when you put your seat belt on, most people arent thinking of the safety, they are thinking of the ticket. This is applied in many ways. The media is controlled, 90% of news is bad news... someone got shot or some car accident. this is not however the majority of things that happen. because where that accident took place is right on the same corner that the boy scouts planted 3 trees and helped the elderly cross the street, and where Molly learned how to ride her bike. Its where the community got together and painted all the walls and planted a garden in remembrance of the good ole days.

In these days we get little to no information from the government on what is going on. We pay them more than what most of us make, to make decisions that we dont even get to decide on.

Too many people are reliant on the government, this is why they tolerate illegal immigration. It causes the percentage of people who are reliant on the government to rise. Which weeds out the middle class people.

Upper class people are generally involved with government things. only 3% of the world is upper class... What percentage of the world is politicians???

The top scale of pay is rated as politicians and CEO's... Which they can both prosper from each other and corruption will set in.

where does that lead the people like us. to become reliant on the government...

when you rely on the government you wont turn against it, because you will FEAR the consequences.

my ramblings may be not to point, however if you read it all... you get the just of it.

1TONpete · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2011, 02:27:43 PM »

HOP is right. Its like Hitler in Europe early on. A lot people didn't need to die if early on people took a stand. We let Hitler take over . Just like We are letting the gov't tighten its grip. I could go on and on too. I got one thing to say on this matter and Ill leave it alone. "NWO"

TwisTtheTwiTcH · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2011, 03:03:06 PM »

If you want your privacy on the internet it is best to avoid being on the internet. There is no middle ground.

Yes technically people can over throw the Government.... Talking about it is treason usually though. >.>;' OH! Plus they have most of the guns... And bombs... And satellites and well we don't.

Lets avoid comparing things to past events, unless the person holds a master's degree in that particular area of history lets avoid quoting the standardized education provided for us today and what is seen on the history channel.

I learned a lot while in Germany that isn't even touched base on in the U.S. so lets avoid that all together, I can tear that entire argument to shreds.

If anybody does something illegal online it is illegal. Right? Yes.

If you are breaking the law, you deserve to go to jail. Right? Yes.

If the government is doing its job by making sure people aren't breaking the law, and not harassing people that are not, you can't claim that its an invasion of privacy. It's pouting that you got caught.

If you have nothing that is illegal that you want to keep hidden, the privacy factor wouldn't matter. If a person breaks the law they deserve to get caught. Especially if they are so bad at it that they get caught by the under staffed, over worked departments of the US government. XDD

-TwisT

jrfhoutx · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2011, 03:27:25 PM »

OK first can we not bring up Hitler? Personally I'm getting a little tired of people comparing things they disapprove of to Hitler and the National Socialists, especially when the comparisons are unfounded and unrelated.

Second I get the gist of what [HoP] is saying, and to an extent I agree with some of it (as soon as the second plane hit the WTC I told my wife it was a setup, I still think it was, to an extent... but that is for another thread and my view of it requires an extremely long explanation; yes the government and media manipulate the people far more than the people believe they do), some of it I think is far more complex than the simple conclusions drawn.

and no, I'm sorry but contrary to popular belief the constitution does not give the people the right to overthrow the government, not by violent means or by force anyway. when most people stake claim to that, what they are actually thinking of is the Declaration of Independence, and the remark made in it that "when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government". The people have the right to "overthrow" through the constitution through lawful means, with the rights to protest, the ability to vote, and the ability to run for office. The biggest problem with those methods is voter apathy. too many people believe that their vote doesn't count simply because they don't understand how the system works. that I believe you can blame the government for... after all it is the government that is destroying the education system in this country... but then again, most people are all talk and no action, so even if you were to start a violent forceful revolution to overthrow the government, how many of those people do you think would be willing to lay down their lives when push came to shove? my guess is very few... people's convictions and beliefs are to easily forfeited and changed nowadays. I think things would have to get REALLY bad in this country before enough people were truly willing to actually physically fight for their country and to take it back from the corrupt politicians out there...

(note: the right to revolution is a philosophical issue, and the specific ideal that the founders were following was Lockean philosophy, which basically states that it is the people's duty to overthrow a corrupt ruling government)

Also, thanks to supreme court rulings, simply talking about overthrowing the government is not an act of sedition or treason, acting on the idea however, is considered an act of treason or sedition

geraldrubalcava · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:03:20 PM »

its a good comaprison of ID cards and this topic. and i agree if you dont have anything to hide thens its all good. However do they have the autiority to "wiretap" the internet traffic? but whats truely scary that our contry does have a internet kll switch that they can activate at there despozal. that sir is wrong.

i agree that the goverment has to protect itself. but if "simply talking about overthrowing the government is not an act of sedition or treason, acting on the idea however, is considered an act of treason or sedition". well as far as history, the path of freedom is only painted by the blood of the people. just "talking about it" will not garrentee out rights,

but i agree with jrfhoutx. back in the day then had a need to revolt just in case. but now, most goverment are pretty much settled. so there is no need to overthough the goverment.

and i also agree with jrfhoutx "I think things would have to get REALLY bad in this country before enough people were truly willing to actually physically fight for their country and to take it back from the corrupt politicians out there" you guys should go to mexico. then you would know a dam contry that need miitary intervetion to secure it from itself. future prediction. US vs orgainized crime.

[HoP] · « **Reply #13 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:15:12 PM »

Quote from: geraldrubalcava on April 16, 2011, 04:03:20 PM

its a good comaprison of ID cards and this topic. and i agree if you dont have anything to hide thens its all good. However do they have the autiority to "wiretap" the internet traffic? but whats truely scary that our contry does have a internet kll switch that they can activate at there despozal. that sir is wrong.

i agree that the goverment has to protect itself. but if "simply talking about overthrowing the government is not an act of sedition or treason, acting on the idea however, is considered an act of treason or sedition". well as far as history, the path of freedom is only painted by the blood of the people. just "talking about it" will not garrentee out rights.

all internet traffic is already monitored to an extent, so it doesnt make all too much difference. Imagine having to log into the internet at a government site. they could control your thought by feeding you advertisements and everything...

Some good information: (let your imagine run wild with where this could go)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/15/technology/15search.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/technology/09aol.html?_r=1

geraldrubalcava · « **Reply #14 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:23:31 PM »

HOP thats common knowledge. your computer leaves certain traces all the time. User login: OS type, browser type, etc. just try to do a cane n able attack on you own machine, then you would know exactly how much info you computer shares. you could get scared.

(void)

if internet = login to govermet page

then hackers = ssh tunneling with 256 tcp AES encryption

jrfhoutx · « **Reply #15 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:38:31 PM »

actually under the patriot act the government does have the legal ability to 'wiretap' the internet, and really almost anything else they see fit...

now as for the kill switch it applies to certain sites, not the entire internet...

Yes, the road to freedom is painted with the blood of the people. and yes, violent or forceful overthrow is only considered treason if the revolt is unsuccessful. and even a forceful overthrow doesn't guarantee any rights to you, whos to say the one who gains power will extend you any rights? you only need to look around the world to see that (cambodia and the Khmer rouge, anyone?)...

Mexico's problem is drug cartels and corrupt police and military. solution? remove the black market for drugs in the U.S.... take away the primary source of income and power for the group causing problems and no more group...

Illegal immigration? yeah, remove illegal immigration and I'll show you a collapse in many industries around the nation, mostly service and labor industries... I hate to say it but illegals don't take jobs from people, they take the jobs that people in this country think they are too good for...

geraldrubalcava · « **Reply #16 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:50:52 PM »

jrfhoutx, i cant believe that im saying but i agree man, i agree . but ive bin to mexico, and most corruption are local law inforcements, politicians and cartels. not so much military, but they are the only ones that are preventing my mom and dads home country from being distroyed. and so true about the illegal immigration man. ive never seen a white man working in the fields.

well the us has one of five major servers that control the internet ip system. if the US cuts off the internet. they just cut off connection to 4/5 of the world. its still alot man.

jrfhoutx · « **Reply #17 on:** April 16, 2011, 05:26:32 PM »

Well, I won't argue the corruption points...

as for white guys in the fields, I've seen em, just not many, and they're not usually doing the actual hard work, they're usually in charge; however I do see them in other industries, and regardless, our country's social and service industry infrastructures are fairly dependent on the work of the people that so many feel should be kept out of the country...

as for the servers, yes they may have 1 of 5 major servers, but the 'kill switch' isn't for cutting off the entire server, it's for shutting down specific domains and IPs, mostly government related domains (and some financial sector ones and other specific industries that are considered 'strategic').

RyanF · « **Reply #18 on:** April 16, 2011, 05:36:04 PM »

This government is going corrupt. In school we have to watch a video about once every year from the pres. and I usually just think "what BS". He was raised around people who were communists. The end of the world seems like it is near. The communists will be watching us if we revolt against our government, the way Libya is. The dominoes have been set and are beginning to fall. One thing you may find interesting is in the Bible, Daniel 8. take a look at it and think of the symbolism to the riots around Libya. Everything in the story is a symbol to what is happening in the world. Don't be lazy, DO YOUR WORK! look it up!

geraldrubalcava · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2011, 05:45:31 PM »

"as for white guys in the fields, I've seen em, just not many, and they're not usually doing the actual hard work, they're usually in charge; however I do see them in other industries, and regardless, our country's social and service industry infrastructures are fairly dependent on the work of the people that so many feel should be kept out of the country..." amen man.

well i guess it would be in the goverments best intrest to just censor certain ip and domains lol. but if another country ciber attacks out good old usa, then i think its a good use for a kill switch. And from other known peers, the US internet security is not the strongest. so if another coutry desides to attack it. we should (as a country) just flip the swtich and say no.

RyanF, in some aspects yes. but we all know most of what they say its bull:censored: lol. and if the end of the world seems near. the i will just crack open a soda and let it ride lol. also, goverment will rise and fall. its just a simple fact.

hyper999 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 16, 2011, 07:28:16 PM »

Quote from: geraldrubalcava on April 16, 2011, 05:45:31 PM

well i guess it would be in the goverments best intrest to just censor certain ip and domains lol. but if another country ciber attacks out good old usa, then i think its a good use for a kill switch. And from other known peers, the US internet security is not the strongest. so if another coutry desides to attack it. we should (as a country) just flip the swtich and say no.

yeah thats exactly right but there is no point cutting off the entire internet to a country, like why would another country cyber attack AM it wouldn't bother the government, the kill switch only needs to cut off ip address that could harm the country if attacked not the entire internet...

geraldrubalcava · « **Reply #21 on:** April 16, 2011, 08:47:18 PM »

well yes thats a perfect point. lol but what if some other country is attacking the acutal ICANN servers? lol i thinks thats a good excuse. lol

unless your like china and try sensoring out the internet. then thats a different story. lol

Edit: nvm. lol they finally allocated the last IPV4 adresses. long live IPV6. it would be kinda pointless to hack those servers right now lol.

jrfhoutx · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2011, 10:45:05 PM »

Quote from: RyanF on April 16, 2011, 05:36:04 PM

This government is going corrupt. In school we have to watch a video about once every year from the pres. and I usually just think "what BS". He was raised around people who were communists. The end of the world seems like it is near. The communists will be watching us if we revolt against our government, the way Libya is. The dominoes have been set and are beginning to fall. One thing you may find interesting is in the Bible, Daniel 8. take a look at it and think of the symbolism to the riots around Libya. Everything in the story is a symbol to what is happening in the world. Don't be lazy, DO YOUR WORK! look it up!

OK, seriously, first, get your stuff straight, stop regurgitating the BS made up 'facts' that FOXNews and Glenn Beck spew, and stop listening to your parent's regurgitation of those 'facts' and talking points. Actually go out and get the info from multiple other sources, that's the only real way to get the truth nowadays.

Second, learn the actual definitions of, beliefs of, and philosophical stances of social movements and concepts such as Communism, Socialism, and Marxism. I don't know maybe read a book by Marx or Lenin and see what it's actually all about.

Third, don't try and equate biblical references to current events. Christianity isn't the only religion out there, and like most religions is far from lacking in hypocrisy and contradiction, and leave the religious fear-mongering and comparisons off this site...

RyanF · « **Reply #23 on:** April 20, 2011, 04:33:17 PM »

lol If my parents told me about the stuff in the bible that I posted, I wouldn't look it up. I do accept that there are other religions out there. I have friends who are christian, jewish, catholic, amish, and even a friend in china who's buddhist. I don't care about what somebody believes in.

Quote from: jrfhoutx on April 16, 2011, 05:26:32 PM

as for white guys in the fields, I've seen em, just not many, and they're not usually doing the actual hard work, they're usually in charge

Come to Indiana and tell me what you see.

There are fields that I work in that have 20-30 people and you will have no black guys. and no, the person who hires us isn't racist. (If he was, there would be a lot of people afraid of him. He knocked out a cow when it got mad at him. It slid a few feet after it hit the ground.)

jacobia jacob · « **Reply #24 on:** April 21, 2011, 07:21:41 AM »

how did this thread manage to go from an internet id system to what race farm workers are?

while i don't particularly like the idea of a government run internet identification system, i understand the concept and how it could be useful to the government. it doesn't have to be a bad thing, most of your information is already available on the internet anyway with facebook, banking websites and what have you. Personally i'll be watching this closely but not breaking out my tin foil hat quite yet.

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Author Topic: Internet Identification System (Read 10317 times)