Author Topic: New LED mod Idea! (Read 13845 times)

devilbeast · « **on:** June 06, 2008, 05:39:38 PM »

This is my first post and I've been visiting your forums for some time now and enjoyed a lot of what ppl have done here.
The one LED mod I was looking for and have yet to find in the forum search is a Amblight psp mod. (Seen Here.)

From what I gather you would need a:
1. micro controller
2. Two 4 color LED's with RGB&W (or) 4 LED's 2 with RGB, and 2 pure white "This is if your only lighting the L&R flipers."
3. A way to interface the controler with the lcd color readouts on the left and right side of the screen.

This is just an idea, and I haven't messed with any micro controllers since I was 12.. I'm 30 now and I know things have changed a crap load.
If anyone would like to take up this endeavor or point me in the right direction where to start looking, I might take it up myself.

Thanks in advance for any help or info. If you plan to take it up yourself I'd at least like to kept up to date on the project.

tmandt · « **Reply #1 on:** June 06, 2008, 07:03:21 PM »

link doesnt work!

Gamer4life · « **Reply #2 on:** June 06, 2008, 07:06:12 PM »

yeah i noticed that 2 clicked it like 23 times

ryan0 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 06, 2008, 07:08:26 PM »

dude fix the link it sez www.http://

VoX · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2008, 07:09:19 PM »

Here's the link: www.flattv.ce.philips.com/en/us/ambilight/overview.html

ra1n · « **Reply #5 on:** June 06, 2008, 07:15:36 PM »

thats cool...

sprocketme2 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 06, 2008, 07:37:14 PM »

thats a pretty good idea. It may be a little tuff though. The hardest part would be detecting what amiant color to use. I would say this may be the easiest way to do this. Schematics are actually fairly simple. If somebody starts dovelopment on this I will be glad to help.

tmandt · « **Reply #7 on:** June 06, 2008, 07:41:52 PM »

oh that. thats just like if you have a led fader inside the psp. nice thinking though i think dd already did that or somin. it was somone

sprocketme2 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 06, 2008, 07:49:04 PM »

Quote from: tmandt on June 06, 2008, 07:41:52 PM

oh that. thats just like if you have a led fader inside the psp. nice thinking though i think dd already did that or somin. it was somone

Its not a fader, its adaptable rgb leds that change to match the 'ambiant' color of the LCD screan.

Blizzrad · « **Reply #9 on:** June 06, 2008, 07:57:27 PM »

Great idea. I have also been looking into this type of project, from what I gather so far, this can be done like you said with RGB+W LEDs, and using pulse-width modulation to drive the LED intensity based on data from the LCD's RGB and clock lines. Any progress I make on this will be very slow (as I have much to learn on the subject) but it would be great to share findings and ideas.

00G · « **Reply #10 on:** June 06, 2008, 08:39:05 PM »

I think a photo-resistor can detect general colors and/or color changes. This is a great microcontroller project! If I have any photo resistors i will give it a try ASAP....

devilbeast · « **Reply #11 on:** June 06, 2008, 08:45:23 PM »

First I apologize for the link. for some reason once posted it added another http in the beginning.. fixed now

Second Sprocketme2 is correct, but not only does it match the 'ambient' color of screen, it's also differential. Differential meaning if the left side of the screen is red and the right side is blue, then the left and right flippers would match the left and right screen color.

Last but not least thanks for the welcome Blizzrad, and I'm going to go ahead and look into the PWMdrive myself after this weekend.
I don't mean to get off topic but ATM I'm working on a PSP-GUI for the boys here at home using flex/air, to help them manage their games spread across neogeo,snes,psx, and psp. Knowing where all those go and which folder they go to is still a bit much for 8-10 year olds. That way they can point, click, and upload to the MC.

devilbeast · « **Reply #12 on:** June 24, 2008, 12:48:40 PM »

Just an update! Letting you all know I haven't given up on this, just now starting to work the idea out. To much RL going on to start when I wanted to. May also add to even more delays down the line.
So far on paper this is the basic Idea I have down and if anyone would like to add to it or point in another direction feel free to do so.

more info on the LCD can be found here.

K4P741N KRUNCH · « **Reply #13 on:** June 24, 2008, 03:54:59 PM »

I was thinking you could use D1,DH136 and D480,DH136, but then I realized that myself and alot of other photoshoppers I know put very minute borders around images so they pop out a bit more, so you might end up with black as the readout and thats probobly gonna be tough for those LEDs. I say you use
D3,DH136 and D477,DH136. That is if you can specify it, I don't know too much about this stuff.

Cool idea

00G · « **Reply #14 on:** June 24, 2008, 04:40:03 PM »

Actually, my RGB LEDs and controller are the prelude to doing a POC for this ambient light thingy. I have a light sensor and measured the values. It is kinda crude, but I did get it to recognize the general colors. Just need to program the PIC to do the computing. The only thing I have an issue with is the sensor has to be directly in front of the screen. It is just a POC, I don't intend on keeping it, hehehe...

K4P741N KRUNCH · « **Reply #15 on:** June 24, 2008, 06:11:51 PM »

Maybe you could fit a sensor on there is you put a little hump in the plastic, I think the easier way would be to get the values from the LCD ribbon cable.

Blizzrad · « **Reply #16 on:** June 24, 2008, 08:14:31 PM »

Nice diagram Devilbeast, good to see more progress being made on the project. I am a little confused by the reversal of the separate white LED though, isn't white produced from the LCD when R, G, and B are at their highest intensity? If this is true, then white could be produced by the RGB LEDs without the need of separate LEDs dedicated to it. I think we will also need the clock and H/Vsync lines running to the microcontroller in order to isolate values of different pixel ranges from the screen.

Using sensors to obtain the color values will ultimately always leave us with the problem of where to fit them, although it would be cool to see this in action. The code to drive the LED color is needed regardless of how the values are obtained, so I think this could still be useful for the LCD method as well.

00G · « **Reply #17 on:** June 25, 2008, 12:53:13 AM »

Here is a short vid of my crude color detection, more like brightness detection. I had it recognizing 100%, but I think my sensor got saturated and needed a break (or a short to itself), so I had to adjust the distance for a few colors. I think a wavelength detector and a tiny mirror would work, but getting the data direct from the LCD controller is the best way. It just seems that the data is a bit too large for my abilities. I am still looking for a way to detect exact colors, but here is a little bit of progress. I could easily reprogram my psp to show the colors, but I soldered the controller and am too lazy to disassemble

...also, I can get white-ish light with the 3 colors at max intensity, but without a diffuser on the LED housing, you can see the color seperation since the RGB LED I have is a bit wide...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/8mqFT3nvg3M&hl=en" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/8mqFT3nvg3M&hl=en</a>

devilbeast · « **Reply #18 on:** June 25, 2008, 01:15:33 AM »

Actually LCD is quite the opposite. An LCD screen is nothing more then a Light Filter. Where a LED is a Light emitting. Here is a simple way to explain this.
Take a flashlight, It acts like your white light behind an LCD screen. Next get 3 sheets of tissue paper or clear colored paper. You need 1 RED, 1 BLUE, and 1 GREEN. They act like the LCD itself with the RGB color pallet filters.
When you put each color in front of the flashlight you get a different color on the wall, but if you put all 3 on top of each other you get nothing to almost no light at all.
To simulate LED just add 2 more flashlights. The 3 flashlights each have 1 of the 3 colors point them to a single point on the wall and you should get close to white.
This is also why a white background on a PSP will last longer with the battery then a black one will.

Finally I think your right on needing the CLK and H/V. If you look at page 14 of the PDF you'll see the top diagram giving the data signal for D1~480(pixel 1~480 left to right) and lower diagram dh1~272(Pixel 1~272 top to bottom). I have represented this on my diagram if you look at the white boxes.
Now I think the easiest way to go about this is setting fall off points on the left and starting points for the right side. Example would be L ≤ 240 , R ≥ 241 at any vertical point.

TO: Krunch
Once I get some type of test platform going I may need to adjust it like that but would rather just go with a majority rules kind of deal. Still thx for the info.

TO: 00G
Just before I was about to post a reply I caught your vid.. Nice color detection. Good job indeed and it does suck you have to have it right in front like you stated before. It would make this a LOT simpler if they made some kind of clear cover that could do that.

00G · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2008, 01:43:46 AM »

I just found a sensor that will work perfectly. Mount it on the surface of the PSP facing the player, use a mirror to capture the colors on the edge at 45 degrees or so to keep a sensor off of the LCD, then send the info to the processor. It looks promising and easy, woohoo!!! Good luck!

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8618

VoX · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2008, 01:58:07 AM »

Looking awesome so far, The sparkfun looks like it will work good, Keep us updated

Blizzrad · « **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2008, 03:43:41 AM »

Devilbeast, I understand what you are saying, but this is true of normally white LCD displays, whereas the PSP LCD is listed as normally black (datasheet page 5). In this case the screen will be most opaque when voltage is not applied, and will gain transparency as it is. The chart on page 15 of the datasheet shows the 24 bit configuration for displaying each color, black is low level voltage across all lines and white is high level across all lines, the same applies to the individual color grayscales.

Nice video 00G, and the light sensor from Sparkfun looks like a good find, I don't quite understand your description of where you will place it though. The LCD is pretty tight up against the case, and is surrounded on its edges by the frame holding it in place. Reading colors from the edge of the screen will be difficult because of the white light bleeding out from the backlight.

DubbleDutch · « **Reply #22 on:** June 25, 2008, 04:22:31 AM »

we got a tv just like that

anyway :P to keep ontopic

this idea has been thought of (is in the Jr R&D section, posted by optix)

it was only an idea from him, he never did something with it

devilbeast · « **Reply #23 on:** June 26, 2008, 11:52:39 AM »

Damn Your right Blizzrad. Thx for catching that. I'll make the diagram changes this weekend.
Now going back to PWM, (I don't want to stick with one idea to go about this, and make it as cost effective on the design side as possible.) I've been looking for documentation on the psp side that you said Cyberpyrot might of posted but I can't find anything

, even from Google search. Would you happen to have a link or links pointing to this info? Keep in mind I'm not looking for PWM info on the audio side just video. If its raped into one thats fine also. Thanks ahead of time.

(TO: DubbleDutch) Guess I can't take claim then on the idea for the psp but lets see if WE can take claim on making it happen.

Blizzrad · « **Reply #24 on:** June 26, 2008, 06:52:09 PM »

There is a good amount of information available online regarding the use of PWM for driving LED arrays. Unfortunately I am not aware of any sources for this info directly relating to the PSP. This was mentioned to me by Cyberpyrot in a very brief conversation a while back in which I mentioned this idea (ambilight) and he suggested PWM. That was pretty much the extent of it. The closest examples I have found to what we are attempting are DIY PC ambilight rigs using microcontrollers to handle the PWM driving the LEDs, and sending the color data to the microcontroller over an RS-232 serial line. The color data in this case is averaged from different regions of the PC's display using software running on the PC.

F00 f00 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 28, 2008, 06:22:30 AM »

This is just a quick thought on this project. How about instead of trying to match the colours of the screen instead match the colours of whatever the psp is siting on, like a Chameleon. Not sure how accurately rgb leds can replicate colours but it would be nice just to see a test. I realize tis isnt the intend goal but it could look really nice.

Blizzrad · « **Reply #26 on:** August 05, 2008, 12:55:45 AM »

That is a cool idea F00 f00, the LEDs should be able to match the colors close enough for the effect to work, the tricky part would be reading the color values from surfaces which aren't actually emitting light, particularly if they are underneath the PSP.

I have been working a bit more with this project lately, trying a few different approaches to sampling the color data using a boarduino (basically a breadboard friendly ATMEGA168 on training wheels). Progress has so far been slow and very limited, but it is a fun project to learn from. One interesting thing I found recently which may be useful, is that when split off in parallel and amplified, the three MSB lines do a pretty good job of driving the LED colors on their own.

*Old video deleted*

gx4702 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 05, 2008, 07:31:47 PM »

its a kewlz idea,
but one little concern, wont i be annoying if you like watching a movie or playing a game? cuz the colors constantly change, so your leds in your triggers will constantly change color which...is annoying and you cant concentrate on the game.

lol sorry if i ruined the moment or anything but a switch would be cool =3

folklord36 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 05, 2008, 07:48:42 PM »

ummm do you see a psp anywhere in that video? no you dont this was a prototype with just the screen laid out with 2 rgb leds soldered to the amps reading the rgb signals from the screen. Blizzrad has the coolest set up ever he has a whole psp pined out on a bread board with the audio ports lcd ms slot all the buttons so he has access to all the pins in the psp and the ability to plug in a controller and the lcd and test mods without opening and closing the psp and can make changes without undoing all the wiring in the psp and of course a switch would be added. Props to blizzrad for this i think it is absolutely amazing and cant wait for the final version with smaller ic's two TDA7053A are great for prototyping but as a 16 pin ic and needing 2 of them for only 3 open channels would be massive over kill in the actual application inside a psp and if i remember correctly he said it only needs 5 solderings for the ics so this is pretty simple compared to the original approach with a PIC and alot more work lol but the simplest way is allways the best if you ask me props blizzrad and if i may suggest the ic for the final version maybe a TDA2822 8 pin stero model easy to find and i allready have 2 spares and wana do this

Blizzrad · « **Reply #29 on:** September 18, 2008, 03:33:20 AM »

I gave the simple MSB triggered approach another try using three NPN transistors and some resistors, all available from RadioShack. This worked out much better than using amps, and with a smaller and cheaper part list. The colors look a little stronger and there is no flickering. The video shows a quick demo, I will elaborate on all this later today when I have time.

*Old video deleted*

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Author Topic: New LED mod Idea! (Read 13845 times)

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