Optical track ball 360 controller. idea in progress.

[1TONpete]

This all started from this link that Moose put up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320699965132&ih=011&category=117042&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1
So out came the screw drivers to break down my optical track ball mouse.
Now by design the size of the ball should not matter to the optics because its a sphere. as long as the optics are lined up on the equator it should not be an issue. If you look in the pic that shows the socket it has 3 lil nubs that stabilize the ball.



pins starting from black. 1=ground,2=5v constant , pins 3-6 start at 5v and vary depending on movement. I cant tell if these are directional pins because of the nature of the track ball i dont know if i am moving exactly up or down or left or right. pin 7 say 4.88 v lil less than the constant 5v . The last 2 pins are low v and vary w movement also.
If you look in the pic i took a snap of the video demo. In this pic you can see the lil nubs ,mounted in the analog socket. That is what holds the ball in place. They are like bearings .

[FOOKz™]

Charts like this really help me out find how crap works.

Measure from 1 To 2, No Movement: 5 volts
Measure from 1 To 3, No movement: ________
Measure from 1 To 4, No movement: ________
Measure from 1 To 5, No movement: ________
Measure from 1 To 6, No movement: ________
Measure from 1 To 7, No movement: ________
Measure from 1 To 8, No movement: ________
Measure from 1 To 9, No movement: ________

Measure from 1 To 2, Trackball UP: 5 volts
Measure from 1 To 3, Trackball UP: ________
Measure from 1 To 4, Trackball UP: ________
Measure from 1 To 5, Trackball UP: ________
Measure from 1 To 6, Trackball UP: ________
Measure from 1 To 7, Trackball UP: ________
Measure from 1 To 8, Trackball UP: ________
Measure from 1 To 9, Trackball UP: ________

Measure from 1 To 2, Trackball DOWN: 5 volts
Measure from 1 To 3, Trackball DOWN: ________
Measure from 1 To 4, Trackball DOWN: ________
Measure from 1 To 5, Trackball DOWN: ________
Measure from 1 To 6, Trackball DOWN: ________
Measure from 1 To 7, Trackball DOWN: ________
Measure from 1 To 8, Trackball DOWN: ________
Measure from 1 To 9, Trackball DOWN: ________

Measure from 1 To 2, Trackball LEFT: 5 volts
Measure from 1 To 3, Trackball LEFT: ________
Measure from 1 To 4, Trackball LEFT: ________
Measure from 1 To 5, Trackball LEFT: ________
Measure from 1 To 6, Trackball LEFT: ________
Measure from 1 To 7, Trackball LEFT: ________
Measure from 1 To 8, Trackball LEFT: ________
Measure from 1 To 9, Trackball LEFT: ________

Measure from 1 To 2, Trackball RIGHT: 5 volts
Measure from 1 To 3, Trackball RIGHT: ________
Measure from 1 To 4, Trackball RIGHT: ________
Measure from 1 To 5, Trackball RIGHT: ________
Measure from 1 To 6, Trackball RIGHT: ________
Measure from 1 To 7, Trackball RIGHT: ________
Measure from 1 To 8, Trackball RIGHT: ________
Measure from 1 To 9, Trackball RIGHT: ________

[SixtyninNaMoose]

I think I found a trackball thats just right.

http://www.buy.com/prod/usb-optical-mouse-mice-2-in-1-handheld-desktop-for-all-laptop-pc-mac-w/q/loc/101/222226106.html

[1TONpete]

here is what I have learned using a dmm.
1=g , 2 =c5v+ , 3-6 all start at 5v but when moved they will drop to anywhere between 2.4-3.+v. But this gets funny. The only thing that seems like it has any directional change is this... When reading pin 3 down movement of the ball will drop the v down to1.? v and then when no movement after down it drops the v to .001 and stays there until I move the ball in an upward movement. On pin 4 this is opposite and pin 5 its left and pin 6 its right. Im not really sure what this means. The blue wire pin 9 is very low v .05 and this drops even lower w any movement. I am thinking its a digital signal. From this I have seen its possible to do this using an adrino and open source.
link http://dvice.com/archives/2009/05/diy-giant-track.php

[FOOKz™]

here is what I have learned using a dmm.
1=g , 2 =c5v+ , 3-6 all start at 5v but when moved they will drop to anywhere between 2.4-3.+v. But this gets funny. The only thing that seems like it has any directional change is this... When reading pin 3 down movement of the ball will drop the v down to1.? v and then when no movement after down it drops the v to .001 and stays there until I move the ball in an upward movement. On pin 4 this is opposite and pin 5 its left and pin 6 its right. Im not really sure what this means. The blue wire pin 9 is very low v .05 and this drops even lower w any movement. I am thinking its a digital signal. From this I have seen its possible to do this using an adrino and open source.
link http://dvice.com/archives/2009/05/diy-giant-track.php

I went digging and kelbot posted the worklog on her website here: http://www.kellbot.com/2009/05/life-size-katamari-lives/

PS2 mouse interface library with Arduino: http://www.arduino.cc/playground/ComponentLib/Ps2mouse



So its hook the PS2 port to an arduino chip and hook that up to some digital potentiometers and we have a trackball controller!

[1TONpete]

sweet lets build it
I found a smaller track ball mouse
Ill try and find the link again

[Rodent]

Is this going to be going into a wireless or wired controller? something I might want to try and take on also I have an acctual track ball mouse its older though, would have to dig it out and see how it works to be able to  convert it to a xbox 360 controller

[FOOKz™]

The older ones use a 2-axis system where there's two rods that spin on X and Y and each one spins a disk that has holes in it to trigger a light sensor that sees the holes. Not quite sure how the new singe senor trackballs work... but in this case we can work with any kind of trackball/mouse system if it has a PS2 connector on it.

[1TONpete]

The amount of power that these things use, they recommend using a wired controller or using a pnc cable w a wireless one. And I think the older style ones might be easier to convert.

[Hazer]

The best solution would be a module that included the sensor and housing. Next would be to tear apart a small trackball (someone linked a handheld battery powered one from DX extreme for $10).

Last thing to say is, I will probably buy one of the converted ones and tear it apart to find out what they used.

PS2 -> PIC/AVR -> analog out   is the harder way.


Sensor pulse -> PIC/AVR -> analog out would be better. I want battery powered solution.

[1TONpete]

"Sensor pulse -> PIC/AVR -> analog out would be better. I want battery powered solution."
I like this solution, but the sensor output is funny. It will take some sniffing.
how ablout this solution...
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10105
What if we take one of these and flip them upside down so the optics are centered on the analog hole, pointing up, then drop the ball on top of that with the bearings mounted to an upside down analog pocket. All a track ball is is a mouse upside down with a ball instead of a mouse pad.
Also at spark they carry the other kind of track ball with the x,y sensors... check out this bad boy...
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10758

Digital Potentiometer - 10K
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10613

Mini trackball mouse
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/unique-usb-wired-hand-held-4d-usb-mini-trackball-mouse-72486

Nice small one with a black ball..
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-usb-2-0-handheld-trackball-mouse-150cm-cable-29834

Wireless Presenter with Laser Pointer and Trackball battery powered ...

[1TONpete]

PS3 version anyone no extra parts need except a ball and mounting it all in one shell. The features you get with this one are amazing.

[Rodent]

I like it, running short on time but will read when i get back 

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Hey, this is a trackball mouse I used to use until recently. With some of the devices you guys have been talking about, could we/I remove the whole ball socket/sensor assembly, wire it to a conversion device and mount it where my right analog is located on my 360 controller? I'm thinking this 1 may be worth a shot, when I still played pc fps's I used to some up cuz of the increased accuracy, sensitivity and control.

What you think?   

[1TONpete]

Give it a try moose. All I can say is good luck, any prototyping parts like ball sockets and ball I will have copies of. Let me know if you need anything.

Some things I have been working on...

[Hazer]

Just a heads up: If we are going to hack up a PC trackball to try this, we will need a wireless one.

I found the pdf file for the A2051 chip in your trackball from the first set of pictures:

http://www.bidouille.org/files/hack/mousecam/ADNS2051.pdf

That chip (and most likely any USB powered trackball) runs off of 5V power, something we dont have in a X360 controller. Now, wireless optical mice are a dime a dozen. I am going to find and hack one up on my end to get chip info. Hopefully we can source a good cheap optics that runs off 3V (double AA power).

The second thing on our shopping list is a ball and the plastic housing that would fit just right in the empty socket of that analog stick hole (just like the controller we are trying to duplicate). It would be nice to come up with a way to do this without major bondo work to the controller.

The last thing will be to see what kind of interface we can get from the optics and turn that into analog voltage. That part (to me) is not the hardest part of this project, its finding the right parts to make a good solution.

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Hey Hazer, the wireless version of that mouse(http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=904346-0403-R) is the 1 I have, just couldn't find pics of it taken apart. However the socket is the same and their almost identical. You think it's the right voltage, and if I'm completely removing the socket/optics from the mouse would it require a lower voltage? Also it only runs on 1 AA.

Pete, I will wait to try converting my trackball until you guys figure out a solution to changing the optics into analog signal.