Was the "Gangster" name ruined?

[budgray19]

and back to the hitler thing
(no im not for him im not for killing the jews)
he revoltionised thsi world
if it wasnt for that war we wouldnt have alot of things
radar
jets
advances in automotive(the tanks helped with that)
the atomic bomb bad i know but = nuclear powerplants
better rockets = outer space exploration
the most tech advancements is during war

(this is so u cant say oh but its still bad)


the gangsters payed ppl off becuase other ppl did it to and it would hurt them and their family if they didnt counter offinceive

ehhh im stoped
i just had a brain fart my thos just scrammbled

[Tec_]

my whole argument has been "people must be held accountable for there actions, regardless of motivation" and i believe that people who commit crimes for personal gain are not the kinds of people who should be idolized

many good things have come out of bad and many bad things have come out of good.

[IndyChav]

my whole argument has been "people must be held accountable for there actions, regardless of motivation" and i believe that people who commit crimes for personal gain are not the kinds of people who should be idolized

many good things have come out of bad and many bad things have come out of good.

Contradicting your entire argument, we are hwo we are and thats how it is,

[ccccpie]

ok well who was a better LEADER? Hitler or Bush? The answer is Hitler.

[IndyChav]

ok well who was a better LEADER? Hitler or Bush? The answer is Hitler.

Well in many ways they were the same, excepy instead of killng a race because he didnt like their ideas,'

Hes killing his own poeple and innocents.

And i think hats worse, we only think that hitler was worse cos of what we were told to think, Bush's methods are actuaslly worse we just dont see it as that

[Tec_]

Contradicting your entire argument, we are hwo we are and thats how it is,

thats dos not free you from your actions. you still need to be held accountable for what you do.

ok well who was a better LEADER? Hitler or Bush? The answer is Hitler.

what dose this have to to with "gangsters" and in my opinion bush because he did not attempt to create a "master race" he may have started a war that we will not be able to get out of because we live in a democratic society that is unable to make a decision and stick with it. but at least i can say it with out fear of violent reprisal from the government that I VOTED FOR.

Well in many ways they were the same, excepy instead of killng a race because he didnt like their ideas,'

Hes killing his own poeple and innocents.

And i think hats worse, we only think that hitler was worse cos of what we were told to think, Bush's methods are actuaslly worse we just dont see it as that

you dont know what your talking about. try doing some research instead of  watching the news that has a political bias

[ccccpie]

thats dos not free you from your actions. you still need to be held accountable for what you do.

what dose this have to to with "gangsters" and in my opinion bush because he did not attempt to create a "master race" he may have started a war that we will not be able to get out of because we live in a democratic society that is unable to make a decision and stick with it. but at least i can say it with out fear of violent reprisal from the government that I VOTED FOR.

you dont know what your talking about. try doing some research instead of  watching the news that has a political bias

It was brought up so i argued my views on it also i am arguing that he was a better LEADER not the whole creating a master race. Hitler was a better LEADER.

And also lets not get fiesty this is just Arguing our views intelligently

[IndyChav]

you dont know what your talking about. try doing some research instead of  watching the news that has a political bias

Okay now youre just picking fights, for one thing i dont watch the news due to its politically bias views, Everythign i say jsut comes out as is, ask ken i tried to explain to him

[ccccpie]

Okay now youre just picking fights, for one thing i dont watch the news due to its politically bias views, Everythign i say jsut comes out as is, ask ken i tried to explain to him

alright guys this was just arguing intelligently so please dont start fighting

[Syko913]

Ok lets clear things up here,First off Gangster is someone that is in a Gang.Selling drugs and killing people doesnt make you a gangster.It makes you a thug aka criminal.The italians werent gangsters,they were mobsters.Mobsters are groups of people that organize crime usually being relatives.I dont know when the term gangster changed from someone who is in a gang to someone that sells drugs and commits crimes.None of the famous italians mobsters where ever gangsters,Mafioso means your part of the Mafia.Thats what they were.The only Gangsters that may have ruined the word Gangster are people that go around creating there own gangs,or just go around claiming they're in a gang.

[IndyChav]

Preach brother preach =P

[kink192]

Ok lets clear things up here,First off Gangster is someone that is in a Gang.Selling drugs and killing people doesnt make you a gangster.It makes you a thug aka criminal.The italians werent gangsters,they were mobsters.Mobsters are groups of people that organize crime usually being relatives.I dont know when the term gangster changed from someone who is in a gang to someone that sells drugs and commits crimes.None of the famous italians mobsters where ever gangsters,Mafioso means your part of the Mafia.Thats what they were.The only Gangsters that may have ruined the word Gangster are people that go around creating there own gangs,or just go around claiming they're in a gang.

so true. but as we all should know, laws differ in different areas, like in amsterdam, marijuana is aloud, as is prostitution. this was done to reduce crime and better the society, if you havent noticed areas where more things are legal have lower crime rates than places with many laws, claiming that such things are not alowed. anyone can be a gangster and still abide the law, not the greatest example but the show scooby doo, they claimed to be a gang, and they BETTERED society. the way i view the mafia is that they were very intelegent people who were just trying to survive in their harsh surroundings, and not everyone that commits a crime is wrong in doing so, on technicality they are wrong for doing something in which they know shouldnt be done, but what about in societies like communist russia, they were alowed very little freedom, they werent alowed religion, which is a main thing because if you really want to look at it this way religion is quiet simmilare to gangs, a group of people trying to set values and guidelines in which others should live by. thats my two cents

[budgray19]

nicely put kammokaze
and syko

[kink192]

i try XD but even though this is a debate lets not try to get too heated. and another thing, dont force stuff at other people, thats the one thing that irks me the most in when people force stuff on others. please dont.

[Tec_]

sorry to any i offended.

1. my main point was that irregardless of motivation breaking the law weather it be for good or bad is still breaking the law. and you must be held responsible for your actions.

2. in the contexts of the original question i do not believe that ether form of "gangster" should be glorified.

3.i am offended by the comparison of bush to hitler, because there is no comparison. and regardless of if i voted for him or not bush is still the president and my devotion to the president and the constitution would not change regardless of who the president was. if my views do differ i am offered the chance to vote, to run for office, and to do something about it. the Germans, polish, jews, gypsies, gays, and others were not given that chance. there is NO comparison.

[budgray19]

1. my main point was that irregardless of motivation breaking the law weather it be for good or bad is still breaking the law. and you must be held responsible for your actions.

what if some one killed every one that u loved and there was no way for th courts to come to the conclusion that the man that u APSOLUTLY KNEW killed them all.
but u where for certain about it
what would u do
would u make him pay for it or would u sity there and say
nothing i can do and just walk on?
he showed u the proff and took it away and u couldnt find it and neither could the cops

and ur not offending anyone
some ppl cant take an argument like an argument with out it becoming personal
i dont know why

[Tec_]

what if some one killed every one that u loved and there was no way for th courts to come to the conclusion that the man that u APSOLUTLY KNEW killed them all.
but u where for certain about it
what would u do
would u make him pay for it or would u sity there and say
nothing i can do and just walk on?
he showed u the proff and took it away and u couldnt find it and neither could the cops

and ur not offending anyone
some ppl cant take an argument like an argument with out it becoming personal
i dont know why

oh for sure i would make the bastard pay, but i do so knowing that i will be held responsible for my actions. weather it be by the law or what ever maker i believe in. but my knowing in no way justifies the action i would take. nor dose it excuse me from the consequences.

and i do understand why people take offense. any time you touch on peoples beliefs things get heated.

[Doc Brown]

Also Buddhism That is all Thinking only about them selves. It's about not worrying for someone else and only your self. Personal Gain.

Ummm... I think that you need to re-evaluate your understanding of buddhism, it's about personal enlightenment, and making the world a better place for yourself and others by attaining enlightenment... yes, the end result is a personal gain, but that is the same basic reward system that all religions are based on...

this whole discussion is kinda sad and really shows the lack of comprehension and understanding that people have now in regards to certain sociological issues...

mafiosi were not the people that movies have made them out to be, they exploited the people in their communities for personal gain and gave those people false hopes, killed innocents, and destroyed the lives and livelyhood of defiants they did not kill. they were criminals simply by associating themselves with the mafia, organized crime is still crime...

what if some one killed every one that u loved and there was no way for th courts to come to the conclusion that the man that u APSOLUTLY KNEW killed them all.
but u where for certain about it
what would u do
would u make him pay for it or would u sity there and say
nothing i can do and just walk on?
he showed u the proff and took it away and u couldnt find it and neither could the cops

and ur not offending anyone
some ppl cant take an argument like an argument with out it becoming personal
i dont know why

whether you know absolutely or not it's still a crime if you take matters into your own hands outside of the justice system. crime is independent of motivation and personal beliefs, it's conviction that is dependent on motivation, mental state, and personal beliefs... and a group of your peers...

[Tec_]

dead on doc that is why i do not believe that "gangsters" should be glorified in any way

[Doc Brown]

don't get me wrong, I'm a huge "Godfather" fan, one of my favorite movies, but I know it was a movie, it was fictional... the mob isn't really like that, I know, they burned my great-grandfather's market when he told them he wouldn't pay them to protect him from nothing... the only people the mob are 'protecting' you from is themselves...

[ccccpie]

Buddhism is about personal gain

[Doc Brown]

Buddhism is about personal gain

ok so then if it is about personal gain, then how does that make it any different than any other religion?

[ccccpie]

ok so then if it is about personal gain, then how does that make it any different than any other religion?

Christianity is about helping others and bringing them to faith

[Tec_]

Christianity is about helping others and bringing them to faith

no if you believe the first counsel of Jerusalem its about belief in jesus.

but lets not break in to religion, as this has gone so far off topic and this will only get more heated as were straying in to territory that people build there life on.

[kink192]

yeah i think its a good idea to stay off of religion too heated. but 'gangsters' ( the '' are to symbolize mafia gangsters) were people who found a way to survive, it was wrong, based on my morals, although some may see it differently. basically what im saying is that right and wrong are based on 2 factors, the justice system, and personal beliefs. the 'gangsters' were morally right but justifiably wrong. and no mean to get on your bad side or anything tec, but not everyone on here lives in america, so not everyone knows how things work over here. some people have no choice in the matter, like in the times of slavery in america, people were based guilty or not just from their skin tone, so based on laws laid out for the majority isnt exactly a very good way to tell if someone is right or wrong.

[Doc Brown]

Christianity is about helping others and bringing them to faith

that comment is quite naive, but I digress, you guys are right, this is not the best place for religious debate...

[Tec_]

yeah i think its a good idea to stay off of religion too heated. but 'gangsters' ( the '' are to symbolize mafia gangsters) were people who found a way to survive, it was wrong, based on my morals, although some may see it differently. basically what im saying is that right and wrong are based on 2 factors, the justice system, and personal beliefs. the 'gangsters' were morally right but justifiably wrong. and no mean to get on your bad side or anything tec, but not everyone on here lives in america, so not everyone knows how things work over here. some people have no choice in the matter, like in the times of slavery in america, people were based guilty or not just from their skin tone, so based on laws laid out for the majority isnt exactly a very good way to tell if someone is right or wrong.

i would love to know how you justify number running, racketeering, and election rigging as morally right.

and i realize that not every one on hear is from the US, and i have a little problem with people who are not US citizens bashinging the US government. i realize you have every right to do so, but that doesn't mean its not going to set me off.

[kink192]

what im trying to say is people have different morals. what you might find wrong someone else might find to be right. like racial/religios jokes, I find them acceptable within reason, you might not. different morals. i dont find the acts that you recalled morally justified. but they may have. man this is tough on a psp. but thats my views.

[Tec_]

i get what your saying but that still dose not excuse the act. even if you dont have a problem committing a crime that dosnt make it any less a crime

[kink192]

i never said that it didnt, and im not saying that your putting words in my mouth, but your right, it is still wrong based on the law of the land. what i was getting at was it is morally right to them