Xbox 360 "Matrix 2" board issues using mods

[ClassifiedModz]

Hey guys, I am having some serious problems with these Matrix 2 boards .
I wish a newer CG3 came out instead if these useless controller boards, they are full of "hit or miss" components .

Anyway, getting down too it.
Mods once installed are self firing without command.

My usual technique is 220 ohm on both Left and Right trigger which worked fine with Matrix one although these had higher power connections under LT.

So, using the 220ohm's I am getting self firing when power falls to around 60-70%, mod is also self firing full clips when an explosion occurs beside the player.

Solutions I have tried include ; 1.8v transistor - no help, stopped mod from turning on/off   ...  330 ohm on both trigger, no change ... Then I thought I came across the solution after many more changes to resistance by putting a 1K on RT with a 470ohm on LT.

This seemed to work, testing with various battery's at various stages in power consumption , but to my horror, I was still having returns even after the date I started using this above 470 and 1K idea...

So, back to it . I don't understand why one Matrix two when using the same set of battery's self fire's whereas another matrix two does not !!

I am around 3 weeks into this problem which is strage as we have been using the matrix two for several months without any self firing then bang everythings shooting by itself !

Anyone any idea's to throw my way ?
Anything at all to try/test and re-try as I am out of idea's with these boards and my unit is stoked high with them 


   

[Modded Matt]

lol

[3D0kassiah]

^^^^ lol

[SethMods]

So the biggest problem that you are running into is that the Matrix/Matrix2 controllers use reverse polarity on the triggers compared to the CG/CG2 controllers. So with the CG/CG2 the voltage goes from low to high as the triggers are pulled. For Matrix/Matrix2 the voltage goes from high to low as you pull the trigger (...the opposite).

So if you install a mod designed for a CG style controller into a Matrix style controller then the mod thinks the trigger is pulled when it is not and not pulled when it is.

The second problem is that most mods treat the triggers as if they were digital inputs (meaning that it is either "off" or "on" with no in between). But really the triggers are analog inputs. They have a whole range of motion and they report a voltage accordingly. This isn't obvious on First Person Shooters, but if you play a race car game you will notice that the harder/farther you pull the trigger the more the car will brake or accelerate.

The problem with reading an analog input as a digital input is that if the voltage falls anywhere in between Vdd (+ voltage) and Vss (- voltage) then the PIC has to guess to some extent as to what's going on. By trying all of your different experiments with different components you may have helped the PIC to some extent to guess correctly, but ultimately it is still reverse polarity.

If you do your own coding, then just factor in that the voltage is reverse. If you don't do your own coding, then I would suggest either contacting whoever wrote your code or switching to new code.

If you end up looking for new code, hit me up. It's one of the few things that I do and can help out with.

Here's a snapshot of the datasheet that explains better the "guessing" that the PIC does when reading an analog input.

http://gyazo.com/768c971b158e3b49b9f3ff1dc7e8042c
You are almost always going to be in the 2.0V to 4.5V range for power for your mod, so I highlighted those lines.

So let's say for instance that your controller is providing exactly 3.0V to your mod. Then according to the datasheet the trigger has to read (.15 * 3.0V = .45V) or less to guarantee that your controller is going to read it as a Low. And (.25 * 3.0V + .8V = 1.55V) or higher to read as a High. So if you are providing the mod 3.0V power then anything read between .45V and 1.55V won't have a guarantee that the PIC will interpret it correctly. But these values change depending on the power that you are supplying to your PIC...which change as the batteries begin to die.

Let me run some math and see if I can figure something out.



edit:
Hmm...I couldn't figure anything out.

My testing shows that a Matrix2 with new batteries reads about 1.19V while the Matrix reads 1.40V on the center pin for each trigger. To fix the problem you need that voltage to sit higher (preferably above that .25 * Vdd + .8V number).


I don't have the electrical "know-how" to instruct you on how to increase the voltage. But you could try dropping Vdd to your chip, but I don't know how much that is going to buy you. Dropping the Vdd to 2.0V brings VIH threshold down to 1.28V...still higher than the 1.19V that I pulled from my test Matrix2. So, it may or may not help.

Let me know if you would like help with a new hex.

P.S. Explosions are forcing auto fire because the triggers are on regulated power. They won't change no matter the battery charge, but the mod is not. When the rumble motors turn on the voltage to the PIC changes. You are having this problem because the calculations have to do with the input voltage (which isn't changing) with regards to Vdd (which is changing).

[gmod] you know how to use the edit button use it next time [whitetop][/gmod]

[Hazer]

I solved this problem by putting 3 1N4001 diodes in series from the PIC pin to ground for the trigger connection. This forced the PICs output to remain at 1.3V with a high output, thus making sure it did not drive higher than the 'idle' voltage even with a drained battery.

The reason why this happens is because the resistance of that pot is not calibrated. It has less than a half a turn to vary 10k Ohms, and your trying to use a tenth of that to regulate voltage with a dying power supply. Since the mechanical linkage has no guarantee of what resistance is at 'idle/unpulled', you arejust dancing around a razors edge that would require trial-and-error to get a single resistor to provide the right voltage division.

[ClassifiedModz]

Thanks guys for the reply's ..

Hazer I am currently testing your answer but somewhat confused..
You said to put three diodes together then onto the RT connection on the pic to the RT connection on the board ?

So, remove the resistor and replace with diodes ?

Just checked this and the mod is not turning on/off only changing modes...

You say to ground..
So, do you mean from RT connection on the chip to ground with diodes and then from the same connection with resistor to RT connection on the board ?

Slightly lost , thanks again for your help.

[Hazer]

[Gizmo613]

having a similar issue with my matrix. gonna grab some and see if the diodes will help.

Hazer, i currently have 1n4004 in stock. 1n4001 are on order. would the 1n4004 suffice? and would i still need 3? Thanks

[FOOKz™]

having a similar issue with my matrix. gonna grab some and see if the diodes will help.

Hazer, i currently have 1n4004 in stock. 1n4001 are on order. would the 1n4004 suffice? and would i still need 3? Thanks

1N4004 will suffice to replace a 1N4001

They have the same forward voltage.

[Hazer]

You still need 3. What this circuit does is allow the voltage to rise until the Forward voltage of the diodes is reached. Forward voltage for 1N4001 is about 0.5 Volts. So once the voltage reaches 1.5V, the diodes begin conducting current, and keeps the voltage at 1.5V, thus it will not let the PIC drive a higher voltage, and thus makes sure that 'ghost firing' does not happen.

[Gizmo613]

Thanks a lot guys! I'll give it a try tonight. Currently working some overtime.

[AlakMorreno]

In order to switch between console types PS3/PS4/XBox 360 when using a DIY USB connection, I either have to re-load Teensy Firmware every time or have a Teensy board dedicated for each type of console, correct?

Other than that its just a matter of selecting the configuration file for the game & console, right?