Help fixing traces on wired CL..

[cumbsie]

Hello,

Am I going about fixing this the right way? Generally I'm just looking for advice.

I know it looks horrendous, but hopefully I am improving at this. I'd love to be able to salvage this for a southpaw mod because I don't want to risk it on any of my good controllers.

[RDC]

Top of the board -

The LED pads are torn up good.

There appears to be 2 severed traces above the 5v repair you did. Those will make RSX and RT not work if they are.



Bottom of the board -

You have the 1.8v COM line shorted to Ground with your LSC fix. Remove the 2 bottom jumper wire fixes from the LSC button, neither of those go anywhere anyway but are connected to the top connections thru the Tact button. You only need the top 2 connections. The top/right one is still good, and the top/left one is the 1.8v that you have fixed.

There is no need to fix the Ground tab for the Stick as it still has 3 others that are good. They are just for mechanical stability anyway.

You should use about half the solder that you are currently using. The more the merrier doesn't apply when it comes to soldering.

Be careful when reinstalling the RT as it's not made for fitting around jumper wires like that. You may need to cut away some of the trigger housing so it doesn't hit that repair work.

The 5v wire on the cable doesn't look all that great, and the whole cable is twisted 1 turn.

[cumbsie]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Ha, I didn't notice the cord was twisted. I did notice the broken traces above the 5v but thanks for pointing those out too.  Yeah the LEDs are an absolute mess. I think I saw a tutorial you did on fixing something that catastrophic? Like where you ran a wire through the via on one side of the board to the other and used masking tape to help wire up the LED to prepare it to be soldered back to the board. Maybe you weren't the author of that. :/ I think I saw it on xbox-scene before it went down.

Thanks so much for explaining everything so simply and most of all not being negative. I don't have any electronic theory in my background, believe it or not.

I'm going to need a bit of time to reflect and act on your reply. But I will definitely post pics of my progress. Hopefully I can get them a little less noisy if I take them in sunlight. :/ Any tips on taking better photos with a point and shoot? I see some very nice pictures on your photobucket.

[RDC]

Yes those were my pics on XS, taken years ago with a Casio QV-R4, and they can be seen on the last few pages here - http://s50.photobucket.com/user/RDCXBG/library/Repair?sort=3&page=1

Electronic theory and soldering aren't mutually exclusive at all. Soldering is as much an art as it is technical, and as such no one gets it perfect without learning and practice, and even then there's always something new to learn and then practice.

Sunlight works best for digital cameras, then indoors the more light the better as long as it's shown not directly on what you're photographing without diffusing it first. If it has a Macro feature that should be turned on, it's a Flower icon on most cameras, as it lets it focus better when up close.

[cumbsie]

I think I got some better pictures this time. I lost a few more pads.. this board has been through a lot. Is there like a finite amount of heat a solder pad can take or is it simply overheating them that ends up lifting them? Well I've put a lot of stress on this board because I'm basically just learning these techniques for the first time on it.

OK well I tried to follow your instructions but still LSX and LSC don't work. Also RB doesn't work for some reason as well. On the other hand, RSX and RT miraculously work.  I've tried to label the pics so I can illustrate my lack of understanding.



I removed the connections at point D as I think you instructed.. so those aren't both grounds?

I'm guessing there's a problem at point A because LSC doesn't work.. but on the other hand LB works fine so I don't know.

Is my repair at point B good?

C is fine as well, right?

Also is this how the LED should be oriented? Or are my LEDs even fixable? I followed your tutorial and I had success with wiring the LED up like in your tutorial so I think it's totally doable for me if I know where everything is supposed to be. Do I need to fix all the LEDs for any of them to work?



Is this how it should be oriented? The layout for the player 1 LED is really awkward on this board compared to others so if I get that one the rest should be relatively easy.

Thanks again for your help. It is invaluable to me. Let me know if you need to see any other parts of the board.

[RDC]

The pads and traces can only take so much heat and abuse, and being a beginner you're giving them more than enough of both even if it doesn't seem like it. That's just something you need to get the 'feel' for, as well as making sure the solder joint is made properly with enough heat.

A - That fix should restore the COM line to LB and LSC. If LB works and LSC does not, then you either still have some damaged trace on the LSC line (the other connection) or LSC is possibly bad or a hairline crack in the trace at the solder joint there. Solder a wire to TP31 and touch it to that A fix spot adn LSC should work, if it does you ahve a bad LSC or crack in the trace at the solder joint there, if it does not then the issue is farther down that LSC line or the MCU is bad.

B & C - Too much solder. LSX is the left/right and it looks passable, but without testing I can't tell.

D - Those spots are not ground. Go ahead and solder them back how you had them if you like, but the controller isn't going to work at all then as you'll be shorting the 1.8v COM line to ground.

Can't see all of the RB trace in those pics, or it's solder joints, so no guess what's up there.

If you're testing with no Trigger installed then that Analog line is floating, and that can cause all manner of weird issues sometimes, including buttons not working correctly. Either install just the POT for it, or use a 10k Resistor and lock it in the off position while testing everything else.


What you have drawn out for the LEDs there is shorting everything. You need to realize that the nearest Via to a torn up trace doesn't always mean that's where that trace was going, as in the case of those bottom LSC spots. A lot of those are just ground connections that tie the top and bottom ground planes together is all. This is the trace layout for the LEDs in the Wired CL there.

[cumbsie]

It's not that I doubt anything you say it's that I didn't know if I understood you fully. It's my fault for not labelling things from the outset. What confused me about the points at D was that they didn't have any obvious traces leading out of them. I thought that fact made them a ground connection. Where is that tact switch grounded?

I fixed the LEDs on the controller but I haven't really checked on the rest of the problems with the controller. Would I be able to check the traces with a multimeter? I have like a $5 one, but I'm don't know if it's any good for anything other than checking batteries.. it's this one: http://www.amazon.com/DT830B-Digital-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Multimeter/dp/B005KGCI0Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397697330&sr=8-1&keywords=dt830b. I don't know what values I'm looking for or even what mode is used to check continuity.

I'm consciously trying to use less solder, so I hope I'm improving somewhat in that regard. I'm all about conserving my resources as I have to order everything I use online and who knows how long lead solder will even be around. That being said, there's a lot of solder on those LEDs.
 

[RDC]

The Tact switch doesn't ground anywhere as you have a CL version controller. One side is the button line, LSC, the other side is the Common Line, which is 1.8v on that controller. Just because it has 4 connections doesn't mean all 4 need to go some place, in fact, those bottom 2 go nowhere on a new controller, just to pads is all. Not everything is connected to something with a trace, and the LSC is already connected to traces by the top 2 leads at your 'A repair' job, using the bottom ones would just be redundant.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f320/RDCXBG/Repair/WiredCLBottom.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f320/RDCXBG/Repair/WiredCLBottomClean.jpg

That meter is fine for checking continuity, just put it on any Ohms setting and look for 1ohm or less, that means you have a good trace or short, depending on what 2 points your checking between.

[cumbsie]

So do you ever lift pads anymore? Did you ever? Are there any tips you can give that a beginner like me might overlook when desoldering? What tools would you use to remove an analog stick, for instance? What wattage iron?  Do you use a desoldering pump or desolder braid, etc? I think the most important thing I've learned from this thread is to not lift pads. It really complicates and compounds things.

I'm pretty confident in my abilities in desoldering but it seems like all pads are not created equal and certain variables that I'm not aware of will yield an unpredictable result. For example, I find the points for the wire on a wired controller to be much more temperamental than the points for the analog stick.  I thought it might be the clearance of the solder point itself, but the points for the wire don't seem any smaller than the ones for the analog sticks potentiometers, relatively speaking.

[RDC]

Of course I've lifted pads before, anyone that hasn't lifted a pad has never desoldered a thing in their life, though it's pretty rare that I lift a pad anymore as I've been doing this for decades now.

As to all pads being equal, that's half true, as a larger pad will take more heat to remove versus a smaller one, and there are other factors taht can apply as well like mechanical stress making the ones on the Sticks weaker as those things take quite a beating and are not 100% solid. The main reason you believe the TP spots are more sturdy is you're not using as much heat on them, that is not leaving the iron on them as long. If you used the same amount of heat and time on a TP spot as you're using on the Sticks pads, you'd frag them up good, likewise there's no way you're using the same amount of time and heat on the Stick's pads as you are on the TP spots as you'd never get them to reflow at all since there is not only far more solder there, but also the metal of the Sticks' frame that is absorbing that heat for those 4 mounting tabs. The same goes for the Ground connections on the Stick's POTs as you're heating up the ground plane on the PCB.

The biggest thing a beginner overlooks is practice. You'll never know exactly how much heat a part will take to get it desoldered, or how much is too much until you've done it for awhile, and even then you'll still only get the experience from those other jobs, but applying that to a new job is better than not having any at all. Something that makes the biggest difference, is keeping the iron tip clean and tinned. Not only will they last longer, but they will do their job better. There are tons of info and videos on soldering and desoldering online, so there's no point in regurgitating that here, Google never bit anyone but you're not going to find any videos that show you how to practice, and that's the only thing that's going to make you better. Not an expensive iron, not doing it like someone else does it, and for sure not trying to get it right the first time, that's not what practice is and it teaches you nothing. Failing a few times until you figure out the wrong ways to do it though, then you'll get the hang of what the right way to go about it is.

One other thing that you can overlook in the beginning is making sure that all of the solder is removed before trying to remove a component. You can just as easily tear up a pad from that mechanical stress from it not being completely desodlered as easily as overheating it and causing it to come loose that way. Those 2 things go hand in hand as trying to make sure all of the solder is removed means you may apply too much heat and break one loose that way, but too little and it could be damaged when trying to remove the part, so it's a balancing act that you just have to practice to get right.

I personally use a 60W iron, which is far, far more than what is needed for most typical soldering jobs on controllers, and if you're using anything 25W or under and lifting pads, then you don't need anything bigger as you're already putting too much heat into the work. Likewise if you're using a soldering gun, which are rated 100W or more as that's meant for large gauge wire and the like, then it's easy to lift pads. Now here's the thing though, the wattage has jack to do with how hot the iron gets. They all melt solder, thus all get to around the same temps, disregarding adjustable temp ones and the like, the thing with the Wattage is how long it can keep that heat going. It's akin to a light bulb, a 40W bulb and a 100W bulb both give off light, but the 100W one gives off more light so you can see farther. Same thing with soldering irons, a 15W one gets just as hot as a 30W one, but that 30W one can maintain that heat longer and in some cases could burn up what you're working on where the 15W one couldn't.

As far as a desoldering pump or braid goes, I use both as neither one is good for everything. That's best determined by what you're working on and a little personal preference. You can use either in some cases, but there are instances where one is far better or the only thing that should be used. Using braid on a lot of thru hole components is time consuming and takes more heat as you have to heat that braid up as well where a pump is faster there, then using a pump to clean up SMT pads is just a waste of time where braid works best. For removing Sticks from controllers I use a pump exclusively, and on a 360 controller that's something that takes seconds to do, but again, I've been doing this for decades.

[cumbsie]

Thanks again. I'm not lifting pads any more.

I'm still needing advice though. I have another wired CL I'm trying to convert to southpaw. I'm not getting RSY to carry over. There's continuity between those vias for the left stick X and Y and the pads and I don't understand why.. I've obliterated the traces. :/ Do I need to cut any traces on the other side?

[RDC]

You're not getting RSY to work because TP11 is on the back side of the trace, not inline like the TP12 of RSX, so it's attached to either RSY or nothing if you cut it. You'll have to hit the Via for the RSY trace to connect it and make it work.

[cumbsie]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, it would be best to tin the via on the other side of the controller for RSY right?  Since if I do it on the TP11 side the cable won't be able to sit flush.

[RDC]

The wire sitting flush has nothing to do with it. TP11 is connected to RSY, unless you cut the trace between them, and if you did then TP11 is connected to nothing, so you have the wire from the LSY going to nowhere. You need to move that wire that's soldered onto the TP11 spot over to the Via on the other side for RSY.

[cumbsie]

This one:



Right?

I was thinking I should tin the via on the other side of the controller so I can get the USB cable to sit flat, to be tidy. Is that a bad idea?

[RDC]

Yes, prep that Via and move the wire from TP11 to it and then it should work.

You can do it however, but I'd put it on the same side there. If it's going to interfere with the connector that much, then put a notch in the connector so it can sit flat. Watch the standoffs in the bottom half of the shell pinching wires when putting it back together.

[cumbsie]

Got it working. Thanks. It didn't really bother the USB cable at all.



Should I carve the left trigger support to accommodate the wires? Is that necessary?

[RDC]

Yes, it needs to sit flat on the board.

[cumbsie]

Ha, I lifted a pad on the left bumper through being careless and lazy. I didn't want to wait for my radioshack solder sucker to heat up again and was just using the iron and one of those spring-loaded pumps, which usually works out fine, but it just simply received too much heat. I had also desoldered that button a bunch of times trying to find one that worked well.

I had a hard time finding analog modules that would work with the board too, and had to desolder them a few times. It seems some analog modules only work with certain boards.. :/ But I find if you just add a new spring to the board's original analog modules it rejuvenates them to as good as new. At least in the stick tension department. I'll have to test this theory further.







I carved the trigger support out a bit and the controller goes back together as good as any. Definitely could have done a better job, looking at the pictures just now. I also cut a notch out of that little plastic bit on the end of the USB cable just in case. What grit sand paper would use to finish something like the trigger support?

The controller works great except for the fact that the triggers actuate at the beginning of a game, for instance, and have to be pressed once and then they are back to normal. Is this fixable?

[RDC]

All of that style Stick use 10k POTs and they are all technically interchangeable. Even if they use 1k or 100k POTs they still would be as they are just used as voltage dividers.

The reason some replacement Sticks don't work correctly is they have a little different tolerance for sitting at center versus what the controller was made and calibrated with. This can cause some drift (slow movement) in one or more directions when swapping Sticks. If you've installed Sticks that just flat out do not work, then either it was installed wrong or that Stick is bad, but they can all be interchanged with varying degrees of drift. Replacing just the spring inside the Stick doesn't do anything for the wear and tear that the plastic parts of it have gone thru, and it's far more work to replace the guts of those things than it is to fix the drifting in other ways.

I don't see anything in your pics that would suggest issues with the Triggers, unless the Trigger POTs are sitting at some slight angle and not flush on the PCB, and if they are flush they may need to be desoldered and tilted just a hair.

[cumbsie]

Yeah some of the sticks I tried just had slow-turn, ie. turned faster in one direction than another. I've definitely made sure every time to have them flush with the board.

I thought the spring was the only thing that was perishable in an analog module, well it definitely was an improvement. They were extremely loose before I replaced the springs. If there are better ways than refurbishing all the guts then I'd love to hear them. But you've certainly given me enough to think about already. I will check those trigger POTs and report back.

Hey, could you check out this thread: https://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php/topic,43434.0.html? I edited the first post with some progress and could use any suggestions you have if you care to give them.

[RDC]

Everything on the Stick gets worn down besides the metal frame, not just the spring losing it's compression.

As far as that 'slow turn' goes, take some sand paper or the Dremel and just open up the holes in the shell so the Stick can move a tiny bit more, that's all you need to do to fix that.