Wireless 360 Controller LED Question

[raiders4life12]

I am planning on putting 2 rotating color led's next to the d-pad and right analog stick of a wireless 360 controller and i need to know whether i need to use resistors, transistors, and where to solder the led's to make them light up obviously.
Thanks in advance

[FOOKz™]

describe "rotating LEDs"

like switch between two colors?

Yeah you will need resistors/wire but it only depends weather or not you will need transistors.

[raiders4life12]

they switch between red green blue etc. so where exactly do i solder the led's

[FOOKz™]

you have the 7 color LED from radioshack i'm guessing.

you're not giving much detail on how you want to install them: but theres many ways bro. also you will have to solder your leds to the controller's "switched" supply, basically when you turn it on the leds will turn on with the controller (saves the hassle of adding an on/off switch).

Switched supply diagrams: https://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php/topic,34805.0.html

[raiders4life12]

you have the 7 color LED from radioshack i'm guessing.

you're not giving much detail on how you want to install them: but theres many ways bro. also you will have to solder your leds to the controller's "switched" supply, basically when you turn it on the leds will turn on with the controller (saves the hassle of adding an on/off switch).

Switched supply diagrams: https://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php/topic,34805.0.html

i looked at the diagram and its jibberish to me, i just need to know which points of the motherboard i need to solder to if i want my leds to light up then i can put them anywhere right?

[FOOKz™]

i looked at the diagram and its jibberish to me, i just need to know which points of the motherboard i need to solder to if i want my leds to light up then i can put them anywhere right?

What kind of motherboard is the controller? ... just match the motherboard to the picture and you have to solder your LEDs to that switched supply point.

[raiders4life12]

What kind of motherboard is the controller? ... just match the motherboard to the picture and you have to solder your LEDs to that switched supply point.

but which one is the switched supply point? its a wireless cg2

[FOOKz™]

The Wire that is this color is the switched supply point. You hook your 100 Ohm resistor to that point and then solder the positive side of the LED to the resistor. After that you solder the negative side of the LED to ground.

That Black triangle connected to the blue and green wire is a diode. A LED is a type of diode.

[raiders4life12]

The Wire that is this color is the switched supply point. You hook your 100 Ohm resistor to that point and then solder the positive side of the LED to the resistor. After that you solder the negative side of the LED to ground.

That Black triangle connected to the blue and green wire is a diode. A LED is a type of diode.

which point is ground and i dont understand the diagram at the bottom

[FOOKz™]

the green line that connects to the points "TP22" and "TP2" are Ground.

TP8 is the Switched Supply Point. (the point the powers on with the controller)

Ignore the Red Part. That will have no part in your mod.

[raiders4life12]

the green line that connects to the points "TP22" and "TP2" are Ground.

TP8 is the Switched Supply Point. (the point the powers on with the controller)

Ignore the Red Part. That will have no part in your mod.

thank you so much i think i finally understand.
Post Merge: December 08, 2010, 06:32:41 PMone more thing.. this is the led

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17296&variation=

does it still need a resistor and if yes what type of resistor?

[Epic Lavalamp]

you shouldn't need any resistors if the led can take 3 volts

[Famas]

why would you tell him he needs no resistors yes you do say he plugs the pnc port in that ups the volts massivly on a cg2 as thats what i have are they tricolored aka they have 4 pins for 1 led or have a mini chip in like mine if they have a mini chip in no you should be fine but  tri coloured use a resistor 10 or 20 ohm for each pin also youll fined that if there the ones that flash and have a mini chip in like mine that the red as it take the lowest voltage will be the brightest but when  the  other colours light there pretty dim but plug in the pnc and there a hell of a lot brighter so please ignore the last comment as there might be no effects no but down the line they will eventually burn out a resistor is like a control to make sure yo u will get optimum out of the led so please make sure you keep the led safe mate

[hyper999]

i always use 100 ohm for anything led wise on a 360 pad
but fookz is the expert and he said 100 ohm aswell

[Famas]

yea mate i use 100 ohm aswell but for blue leds i use 10 ohm

[FOOKz™]

Despite if you think need a resistor or not You NEED a resistor, its mandatory to guarantee the lifespan of your diode.

not requiring resistors for your leds is for temporary solutions. PWM also does not really need LEDs ether case resistors help reduce voltage drop stress upon the LED's chip.

Optimal rounded-up resistor values for a 2v LED

1.5v	12 ohms @ 0.25 watt
3v	50 to 100 ohms @ 0.25 watt
5v +	220 ohms @ 0.25 watt ~ 0.5 watt
12v +	500 ohms @ 0.5 watt

edit: these LEDs seems pretty sweet http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17296&variation=

[raiders4life12]

Despite if you think need a resistor or not You NEED a resistor, its mandatory to guarantee the lifespan of your diode.

not requiring resistors for your leds is for temporary solutions. PWM also does not really need LEDs ether case resistors help reduce voltage drop stress upon the LED's chip.

Optimal rounded-up resistor values for a 2v LED

1.5v	12 ohms @ 0.25 watt
3v	50 to 100 ohms @ 0.25 watt
5v +	220 ohms @ 0.25 watt ~ 0.5 watt
12v +	500 ohms @ 0.5 watt

edit: these LEDs seems pretty sweet http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17296&variation=

yeah those are the led's im using, i will try to post a picture of the finished product.

[RDC]

A Resistor isn't required if the LED voltage is higher than the source voltage, though in that case connecting the LED up to it is a moot point anyway as it's going to be under driven and not look as good or even work at all in some cases.

The switched voltages in those diagrams is 1.5v~1.6v depending on the version of controller you have, it's not going to power a 3v Rainbow LED.

Furthermore, powering them from a Wireless controller limits you to the maximum voltage of the batteries, which is around 3.2v for Alkaline and then around 2.8v for Rechargeable ones, and in the case of Rechargeable ones it will go up to 3.3v when the PnC cable is plugged in to recharge them. These battery voltages will also drop over time as the batteries are drained, down to around 2.3v, so it's not a regulated source for powering any LEDs and no Wireless controller has one high enough. They're not going to look the same all the time over this change in voltage.

Even if you go with an OC like those diagrams are laid out it's still never going to look as good as it could from a regulated 3v source, but it would be the best way to go about it as it gives you the highest voltage and keeps it switched without having to go to a Charge Pump or DC-DC converter.

[raiders4life12]

A Resistor isn't required if the LED voltage is higher than the source voltage, though in that case connecting the LED up to it is a moot point anyway as it's going to be under driven and not look as good or even work at all in some cases.

The switched voltages in those diagrams is 1.5v~1.6v depending on the version of controller you have, it's not going to power a 3v Rainbow LED.

Furthermore, powering them from a Wireless controller limits you to the maximum voltage of the batteries, which is around 3.2v for Alkaline and then around 2.8v for Rechargeable ones, and in the case of Rechargeable ones it will go up to 3.3v when the PnC cable is plugged in to recharge them. These battery voltages will also drop over time as the batteries are drained, down to around 2.3v, so it's not a regulated source for powering any LEDs and no Wireless controller has one high enough. They're not going to look the same all the time over this change in voltage.

Even if you go with an OC like those diagrams are laid out it's still never going to look as good as it could from a regulated 3v source, but it would be the best way to go about it as it gives you the highest voltage and keeps it switched without having to go to a Charge Pump or DC-DC converter.

so what is my best option, powering them with double aa's and not using a resistor through the switched voltages, or do i power them with a different source and use a transistor?

[RDC]

IMHO your best option is to not put any LEDs in the thing at all, how often are you looking at it when playing a game anyhow?

You'd still need a Resistor since new AA batteries will have a voltage slightly over 3v, and if you ever switched to the PnC pack and plugged it up it's going to hit 3.3v, which is slightly over the 3v it's rated at, but in time could cause damage to the LED. The other side of that is the battery voltage is going to drain, so you not only have a slightly higher voltage that needs a Resistor to deal with it, but you have much lower voltages that you can't really do anything about. The controller will work down to 2.2v before the Low Battery indication will start to flash, but your LEDs will look like crud long before that and not.

If you use the PnC battery pack then the best thing to do is power it from the 5v of the PnC connector. This way it only lights up when the batteries are charging and plugged into the 360, and since you're using the 5v from the 360 as the power source so you'll have no problem powering your LEDs with the proper Resistor.

If you have to have it completely wireless and lit up then using the OptoCoupler in the previously mentioned thread is the best way to go about getting a switched source at it's highest voltage and not having to use a manual switch. In either case, OC or manual Switch, it's still not going to be a steady voltage because the batteries drain over time, and you're still limited to the max voltage that they can put out.

The only proper way to do it and stay wireless is to use a Charge Pump, DC-DC Converter or LED driver circuit to get a higher regulated voltage for the LEDs, but those are more complex than installing an OC or Switch.

[raiders4life12]

IMHO your best option is to not put any LEDs in the thing at all, how often are you looking at it when playing a game anyhow?

You'd still need a Resistor since new AA batteries will have a voltage slightly over 3v, and if you ever switched to the PnC pack and plugged it up it's going to hit 3.3v, which is slightly over the 3v it's rated at, but in time could cause damage to the LED. The other side of that is the battery voltage is going to drain, so you not only have a slightly higher voltage that needs a Resistor to deal with it, but you have much lower voltages that you can't really do anything about. The controller will work down to 2.2v before the Low Battery indication will start to flash, but your LEDs will look like crud long before that and not.

If you use the PnC battery pack then the best thing to do is power it from the 5v of the PnC connector. This way it only lights up when the batteries are charging and plugged into the 360, and since you're using the 5v from the 360 as the power source so you'll have no problem powering your LEDs with the proper Resistor.

If you have to have it completely wireless and lit up then using the OptoCoupler in the previously mentioned thread is the best way to go about getting a switched source at it's highest voltage and not having to use a manual switch. In either case, OC or manual Switch, it's still not going to be a steady voltage because the batteries drain over time, and you're still limited to the max voltage that they can put out.

The only proper way to do it and stay wireless is to use a Charge Pump, DC-DC Converter or LED driver circuit to get a higher regulated voltage for the LEDs, but those are more complex than installing an OC or Switch.

i think i want to avoid an oc since it seems hard to find and more difficult then other methods, so will it work if i get a resistor and go to the 1.5v switched source with double aa's, or do i need to go to the headset jack power source?

[RDC]

You're not getting how this works at all. You can't use the AA power source alone, you need a Switch or an OC to make that a switched voltage. The Switched voltage in the controller is only 1.5v~1.6v, that's not high enough for an LED, but it is high enough to turn on an OC, which can then turn on the AA power source for your LEDs. Using the OC is the easiest and quickest way to get a switched power source from the controller, and they are beyond easy to find. The only thing easier to do is just use a switch, but then you have to turn it on and off manually.

Only the CG version has a switched voltage at the Headset connector, and it still changes voltage with the batteries, so you're looking at just about the same deal using it or an OC. Whoever started the rumor it's a regulated 3v on that controller was wrong, but it is a switched source that you could use for a couple of LEDs.

[raiders4life12]

You're not getting how this works at all. You can't use the AA power source alone, you need a Switch or an OC to make that a switched voltage. The Switched voltage in the controller is only 1.5v~1.6v, that's not high enough for an LED, but it is high enough to turn on an OC, which can then turn on the AA power source for your LEDs. Using the OC is the easiest and quickest way to get a switched power source from the controller, and they are beyond easy to find. The only thing easier to do is just use a switch, but then you have to turn it on and off manually.

Only the CG version has a switched voltage at the Headset connector, and it still changes voltage with the batteries, so you're looking at just about the same deal using it or an OC. Whoever started the rumor it's a regulated 3v on that controller was wrong, but it is a switched source that you could use for a couple of LEDs.

would a transistor help the situation, i could also having them stay on all the time right? would that get me the voltage i need?

[RDC]

Nope.

An OC is a Transistor that's Base is isolated from the rest of it, you'd also need 2 Resistors to use the Transistor as a switch and since the only switched sources in the controller are positive the Transistor can only turn the Ground on/off, unless you use 2 of them and then 4 Resistors. For an LED the Transistor method is fine to turn the Ground on/off, but for other things it's not, so again the OC is a better choice there as it's less parts and can turn on a positive or negative source depending on how it's wired up.

[raiders4life12]

Nope.

An OC is a Transistor that's Base is isolated from the rest of it, you'd also need 2 Resistors to use the Transistor as a switch and since the only switched sources in the controller are positive the Transistor can only turn the Ground on/off, unless you use 2 of them and then 4 Resistors. For an LED the Transistor method is fine to turn the Ground on/off, but for other things it's not, so again the OC is a better choice there as it's less parts and can turn on a positive or negative source depending on how it's wired up.

where are some places i can get an OC and what kind do i need?

[RDC]

Mouser, Digikey, lot of other online places or even some old circuit boards you might have laying around. Any of the Transistor type output ones that can handle 50mA or so will work for what you're wanting to do here.

[raiders4life12]

Mouser, Digikey, lot of other online places or even some old circuit boards you might have laying around. Any of the Transistor type output ones that can handle 50mA or so will work for what you're wanting to do here.

is this what i need?

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=s%252bgfxR24RQ5Jtxo%2FTD122w%3D%3D

[RDC]

That's one for the many out there that would work yes.

[FOOKz™]

RDC, I understand where you're coming from however please understand that some models of LEDs allow forward voltages to be under 1.5v despite wavelength. (you have probably seen some exotic specs for parts too...)

A perfect example of the worst case scenario was the other day somebody here sent me this PM:

They sent:

Hi FOOKz

I hope you can help me. I tell you:

You have seen already my mod (xbox 360 controller with red/blue leds). Well it worked fine for some days but today when I have tried to show it to my friend I have had one problem.

I can turn on the controller and the red leds but when I try to turn on blue leds, the controller turn off.

Its a matrix controller and i think it could be because when i did the mod, i used  the power point wich uses for Rapid Fire to the red leds and but for the blue leds when i used the same point they didnt turned on.

I thought that like the blue leds works with a higher voltage I use directly the power point of the bateries wich i think has more voltage but i didnt use any resistor. I have put 10 leds and i dont know if i had to put a resistor

What do you think?? I hope you can help me because i think its only a problem with the V of the blue leds becuase the controller works fine

Thanks in advance

I replied:

your batteries are probably running low.

(quote) I thought that like the blue leds works with a higher voltage I use directly the power point of the bateries wich i think has more voltage but i didnt use any resistor. I have put 10 leds and i dont know if i had to put a resistor (/quote)

Your batteries should add up to 3 volts. The "turn on" threshold of blue LEDs are around 3.3v to 5v and its very possible your batteries are low enough the LEDs cause your controller a short circuit.
(what i mean my short circuit is that the LEDs is the easiest path to ground, so instead of electricity flowing through the controller it will flow through your LEDs... But you don't have enough voltage.)

They replied back:

Hey fookz!! First thanks for the answer

This is what i thought the batteries but there were nearly full. I changed it but nothing it happen the same

I have tried with the play and charge and nothing also

I think leds are blown because i didnt put a resistor or maybe there is a short because when i pit the batteries the controller gets too hot near the battery contacts

I then replied:

so... you think the LEDs are blown out?

Take the controller apart and test them with a 220 Ohm resistor and a 9v battery to see if they work or not.

Check for short circuits and see if everything is wired up correctly.

Right now we're going through the basic troubleshooting steps.

You could assume the LEDs are blown but there is a few more possibilities until they get back to me with an answer.

[RDC]

@ FOOKz - Some do, these don't. The LEDs in question here are 3v, read the specs. I've used that type of LED before and know they don't work great with lower voltages, and 1.5v on them isn't going to fly at all, so I'm coming from dealing with the setup at hand, not parts that would work if they were being used.

People want different colored LEDs and such for the looks of it, plain and simple, they serve no other purpose, so installing LEDs and then under driving them makes no sense at all and isn't going to be what the person was looking for, or they're just not going to work at all.

As for your PM, I don't see how that's a worst case scenario when the issue hasn't been discovered yet. Since they're all in parallel only one of them being fried would be all it would take to cause that issue though, or some other short in the wiring of them.