Osama Bin Laden is Dead...

[jacobia jacob]

or maybe it had something to do with competition, product design, pricing, etc. theres a lot more factors that go into the consumer's decision to buy any automobile than just the state of the economy.

this thread kind of reminds me of that episode of the office where michael burns his foot on the grill. it started out pretty reasonable, then everyone just got carried away and it all went to hell.

[802Chives]

For the record I do not consider myself a republican.... If there was a republican in office I would be harping on the same things democrats would be because I can garuntee whoever fills that seat will not have the peoples best interest in mind... even if they get elected by that premise.

I feel like I am independent because neither party represents my values, and the government as a whole is broken.  The entire system from lobbyiests to senators and congressman are all representatives of the upper class and corporate america and the rest of the population has to deal with their decisions.   There are some really great men among the groups I mentioned, however fundamentally the system will have to change if we ever want to experience the american dream our forfathers and mothers payed so dearly for and subsequently were able to chase after.  The american dream is out of reach for most of todays college grads not to mention working class americans.

So long story short screw the republicans screw the democrats, I am a working class american who doesnt give who is more at fault for state of our country, who controlled what, none of them were me or anyone like me, so take whatever shots you want at whoever you want, I could care less.  If you take a step back and look at the big picture you would realize that democrats and republicans are upper class americans with upper class american interests, who are doing a poor job of taking care of middle class americans like you and me.  But dont worry once you hit poverty you wont need to think or make a decent living because you will be subsidized and as long as your happy the democrats and republicans wont have to worry about their jobs.

So why did obama spend untold millions of dollars avoiding the birth subject? why would anyone let someone like Donald Trump make you look like a chump when all you had to do was produce the BC? You would have to be pretty arrogant to think that the issue was beneath you and dismiss it when all you had to do is produce one document.  You want to see mine? its right here, and if I want another official copy? I can have it tommorow end of controversy... but I guess that makes me a racist being able to provide information when asked for it.

Lastly I was misquoted about the whole birthcertificate issue in the first place,  I believed obama was born in the US, I dont see any reason for him to lie or how that makes any difference as to his intentions for being in office, even if he was born on mars, I was suggesting that if the media wasnt in Obamas corner, then it would not have taken three years and blow hard like Donny T in order to flush that issue out.   All I want to know is why the kitchen pass from the media???

[Crumbz]

*Nom Nom Nom Nom!* 

[jrfhoutx]

The american dream is out of reach for most of todays college grads not to mention working class americans.

I would disagree with that, but I'm not getting into that argument.

why did obama spend untold millions of dollars avoiding the birth subject? why would anyone let someone like Donald Trump make you look like a chump when all you had to do was produce the BC? You would have to be pretty arrogant to think that the issue was beneath you and dismiss it when all you had to do is produce one document.  You want to see mine? its right here, and if I want another official copy? I can have it tommorow end of controversy... but I guess that makes me a racist being able to provide information when asked for it.

how did he spend 'untold millions' avoiding the issue? if anything people like trump are the ones wasting money, time, and focus on completely unimportant issues. the point is that he provided the required and necessary official legal documents to run for president and he should not have had to provide or disclose anything else above and beyond that to quell the utter douchebaggery that was the 'birther movement.' end of story. racism that's a BS argument imo. the whole issue was a bull:censored: argument to distract people from real issues like the erosion of civil liberties and constitutional rights. it's a typical political tactic, just like illusionists use, it's called misdirection. they wave their left arm so you look over at it and they can snag your necklace with their right hand while you're focus is on their left hand. it's typical political BS. and if you fall for it and get caught up in it and carry that torch even just a little, then I feel sorry for you (not you in specific, but anyone in general), cause imo that makes you a sucker.

Lastly I was misquoted about the whole birthcertificate issue in the first place,  I believed obama was born in the US, I dont see any reason for him to lie or how that makes any difference as to his intentions for being in office, even if he was born on mars, I was suggesting that if the media wasnt in Obamas corner, then it would not have taken three years and blow hard like Donny T in order to flush that issue out.   All I want to know is why the kitchen pass from the media???

how can you be misquoted when the quote wasn't even edited? nothing was removed or added... Maybe your intent was misunderstood, but not misquoted. As for the 'kitchen pass from the media', idk maybe because they, like most of the rest of the country realized it was an unimportant issue that wasn't deserving of their time and effort, because again, the required legal documents were provided when he began his run for candidacy.

I think the bigger question is: do we seriously want to continue to give Trump even the slightest glimmer of hope that he has a chance to be a presidential candidate when he has shown his obvious inability to run a solvent company without filing for bankruptcy; has shown an utter disregard for how he spends money and what he spends it on; continues to focus on issues that are not only irrelevant, but that the vast majority of americans don't care about; and is unable to articulate any points or hold any conversation that's not preprepared? Is that really the kind of person people want to back and vote in as president? the fact that anyone is even listening to anything he has to say is ridiculously pathetic, and makes me really sad that that is how ignorant the people of this country have become. it kinda makes me wish I weren't a U.S. citizen. It's people like him and the people that listen to him and think he and people like him are great that make the rest of the world laugh at us and hate us all at the same time...

[Crumbz]

@802Chives - How is the american dream out of reach for most of todays college grads not to mention working class americans? Isint the American dream to have money and a big gas guzzling suv and live in ignorant bliss? Cuz if thats the case then id say you reached that in the 1950's.

[jacobia jacob]

last i heard the american dream is a house in a quiet suburb with a couple kids and a dog.

[Crumbz]

well unless of coarse hes reffering to the 'manifest destiny' american dream. And if thats the case then thex'll never achieve that.

If you dont know what it means then google it.

[jrfhoutx]

Last I checked 'manifest destiny' in the specific historical use of the westward expansion of the US to the pacific coast was achieved, unless I'm mistaken and california, oregon, and washington aren't on the pacific coast and we didn't occupy all the land in between the atlantic and pacific coasts...

In the broader sense of 'manifest destiny' whereby U.S. citizens purport the virtues of the american people and institutions, spread those institutions to the rest of the world (mainly 'democracy', freedom, and free market) and remake the world in the 'image' of the U.S., and then claim it's god's will that we do so, then I'd say they're working pretty damn hard to do so and making some headway in doing it, or at least believing that they are...



But mostly I think he's referring to this:

last i heard the american dream is a house in a quiet suburb with a couple kids and a dog.

when the 'American Dream' is discussed...

[Crumbz]

well i suppose that's a decent description of the phrase but it is stated differently in the history books. In the history books it say's that "Manifest Destiny" is the idea or dream that the United States will one day occupy all of North America.

And yes it's true that they seem to be making some headway in converting other countries into images of themselves. But is North American culture so great that everyone wants to be us?

Maybe, but the truth is that we are so disgusted with the lifestyle and morals of our own societies that we create images of ourselves and ideas to try and show that we are more then what we are. And most average North American's are either poverty stricken (Or at least what we would consider poverty stricken in our societies) or are so in debt to credit card companies that we might as well be. (And it's mostly thanks to the United States that these ideas and lifestyles ended up corrupting Canadian and European lifestyles because the idea of living to the max, living to the limit started in the states about 10 years after the cold war.) Or we are either overweight or extremely underweight, not the buff and somehow arrogant people that are shown on TV.

I for one can barley stand to look around and see so many people who are blessed with ignorance that they care for nothing but themselves and their appearance. And most families are broken to start because communication is lost because of technology. The modern society has no values at all. all the governments and companies care about is making money ( i mean when did starting a company become for something other then providing a service to the community for a SMALL fee?) Now it seems companies like Sony would rather put profits before their own source of profit... the customers!

And this i s a subject that i could probably rant on for day's about but im going to cut it short so... And i know some of you are thinking i strayed form the conversational path but... did i really?

Are the thing i was talking about so different from the idea of "Manifest Destiny"? Or the White Wash idea? Truly they are not.

[jrfhoutx]

Well to get back on topic, today Al-Qaeda has made an announcement and confirmed the death of Osama bin Laden. I guess now the people who want proof have it and at this point if they still want to see pictures of the corpse it's simply to satisfy their own morbid curiosity (at least imo)...



oh, wait, I forgot, Obama is a terrorist, so it must be a giant conspiracy between the terrorist president and Al-Qaeda to hide bin Laden and further the goals of Al-Qaeda to bring down the western infidels... For those with the inability to detect sarcasm, that was a joke. Though I know some idiot somewhere is going to say it...

[dedafmonteur]

Jr, can u pass me the popcorn?

I dropped mine:(



Yay he is dead!.....hmm.
We'll wait and see what happends now.

[jrfhoutx]

No popcorn over here, buddy, sorry.

[Crumbz]

guess im going to the store to get more popcorn...

[robin1989]

make your own damm popcorn its easy

[Crumbz]

make your own damm popcorn its easy

I meant the kernels silly. I'm not going to grow my own corn just to make some popcorn.

[dedafmonteur]

Why ur so mad Robin?




*Runs away crying*





Look what you've done!!

[robin1989]

im mad because i saw this

[jacobia jacob]

lolwut

[802Chives]

I was misquoted in the fact something I said was quoted and then responded to in a manner that would suggest I didnt believe Obama was american and then continued to portray me as a racist because thats the only thing that could possible have driven the birtha issue.  No where did I suggest I didnt believe it, and that is why the liberal hay eating sheeple are so dense that they cant get past the minutia and understand that the issue does not lie in whether he was or wasnt born in the US, it is the fact that if you are asked to do something you do it even if its not an official request, otherwise you risk looking like you dont take the people who you supposed to be serving seriously.

maybe misquote wasnt the technical term i was looking for... manipulation probably was,  and its funny how even in forum manipulation like that occurs, because that is pretty much the whole reason I said anything about why I dont think we have much to celebrate with the death of bin laden.   I cant recall who said what and tried to take a shot at my character by suggesting that myself and people like me must be racist for questioning his reasoning for not spearheading the issue, but I hope they were on the news team because its that kind of manipulation that media thrives on order to promote their own interests.  again i raise the issue of obamas treatment by the media and jokingly suggest the media is overly conscious of being racist hense their inadequacies in covering and resolving minutia issues like a birth certificate.  jokingly suggest that its racism rather then vested interests that is controlling the medias coverage of the president and the governments actions.

getting caught in issues and carrying torches is what this country was founded on, and frankly im a little bit sick of seeing people being complacent and not carrying more torches.   You should be thankful for suckers who carry torches or you would be drinking tea and eating bangers and mash down to the local pub and talking in a rediculous swanky english accent.

You are correct to be afraid of a pompus ass like Trump trying to take the presidency, people are sick of the same old show in washington, I truely believe that is how Obama got elected in the first place, so yes continue to be afraid and dismiss the fact the maybe there is someone who will bring the change we were promised in 2008.
 

I am done talking about obama in this thread, my distaste for his unforfilled promise of change got the better of me and my inititial post although thought provoking was a little dark and over the top as a result of having a pissed off morning and then discussing politics. (which isnt allowed on AM ) I feel anything further is nothing more then nit picking and taking shots trying to discredit one side or another. 


I leave you with a few thoughts of mine on the american dream, I realize depending on where you are in the US my generalizations may not apply, so if that is the case you can suck it, this is my observation in new england and if you dismiss new england a forecaster for the rest of the country then you probably live in texas :P  To me the american dream is something obtainable and sustainable. its not a $300,000 dollar home paid for over 30 years and then having to come up with $4,000/yr in property taxes for the rest of your life while paying $5 for a loaf of bread and $4 for a gallon of milk $4 for a gallon of gas.   even with inflation thats a hell of a lot more then what your parents and grandparents had to come up with, and if things continue on like they have for the past 20 years your parents wont be able to afford their own retirment and thats another thing you can add on to your responsibility list while you persue the american dream.   College grads by the thousands get out of school and spend literally years trying to find work and most cant even think about their own dreams until college loans are paid.  I cant even count the professions that require degrees that start out paying $25k/year and top out at $50k-$60k, which was fine 20 years ago when that $300k dollar home was $100k and we had $1 milk $1 dollar gas and $1 dollar bread.  Look around you... how many of your friends are laid off or unemployed?  How many people were defaulted on a home loan, credit companies and banks have made fortunes off the debt held by middle class americans at the expense of trying to achieve their own dreams.  who let that happen? I mean its simple math really yet somewhere somehow these people have been allowed to profit from us and make us weaker.  Who let people trade with china and mexico without taxing the imports which subsequently destroyed the industry in the US?  Who allows perscription drug companies to poison our children and pervert our healthcare industry with incentives?  Who lets an ifrastructure rot away for 40 years, and sells things like highways and bridges to people who are not american citizens?  Who's american dream is destroying everyone elses?

[jacobia jacob]

Who allows perscription drug companies to poison our children

the educational system

[Crumbz]

I was misquoted in the fact something I said was quoted and then responded to in a manner that would suggest I didnt believe Obama was american and then continued to portray me as a racist because thats the only thing that could possible have driven the birtha issue.  No where did I suggest I didnt believe it, and that is why the liberal hay eating sheeple are so dense that they cant get past the minutia and understand that the issue does not lie in whether he was or wasnt born in the US, it is the fact that if you are asked to do something you do it even if its not an official request, otherwise you risk looking like you dont take the people who you supposed to be serving seriously.

maybe misquote wasnt the technical term i was looking for... manipulation probably was,  and its funny how even in forum manipulation like that occurs, because that is pretty much the whole reason I said anything about why I dont think we have much to celebrate with the death of bin laden.   I cant recall who said what and tried to take a shot at my character by suggesting that myself and people like me must be racist for questioning his reasoning for not spearheading the issue, but I hope they were on the news team because its that kind of manipulation that media thrives on order to promote their own interests.  again i raise the issue of obamas treatment by the media and jokingly suggest the media is overly conscious of being racist hense their inadequacies in covering and resolving minutia issues like a birth certificate.  jokingly suggest that its racism rather then vested interests that is controlling the medias coverage of the president and the governments actions.

getting caught in issues and carrying torches is what this country was founded on, and frankly im a little bit sick of seeing people being complacent and not carrying more torches.   You should be thankful for suckers who carry torches or you would be drinking tea and eating bangers and mash down to the local pub and talking in a rediculous swanky english accent.

You are correct to be afraid of a pompus ass like Trump trying to take the presidency, people are sick of the same old show in washington, I truely believe that is how Obama got elected in the first place, so yes continue to be afraid and dismiss the fact the maybe there is someone who will bring the change we were promised in 2008.
 

I am done talking about obama in this thread, my distaste for his unforfilled promise of change got the better of me and my inititial post although thought provoking was a little dark and over the top as a result of having a pissed off morning and then discussing politics. (which isnt allowed on AM ) I feel anything further is nothing more then nit picking and taking shots trying to discredit one side or another. 


I leave you with a few thoughts of mine on the american dream, I realize depending on where you are in the US my generalizations may not apply, so if that is the case you can suck it, this is my observation in new england and if you dismiss new england a forecaster for the rest of the country then you probably live in texas :P  To me the american dream is something obtainable and sustainable. its not a $300,000 dollar home paid for over 30 years and then having to come up with $4,000/yr in property taxes for the rest of your life while paying $5 for a loaf of bread and $4 for a gallon of milk $4 for a gallon of gas.   even with inflation thats a hell of a lot more then what your parents and grandparents had to come up with, and if things continue on like they have for the past 20 years your parents wont be able to afford their own retirment and thats another thing you can add on to your responsibility list while you persue the american dream.   College grads by the thousands get out of school and spend literally years trying to find work and most cant even think about their own dreams until college loans are paid.  I cant even count the professions that require degrees that start out paying $25k/year and top out at $50k-$60k, which was fine 20 years ago when that $300k dollar home was $100k and we had $1 milk $1 dollar gas and $1 dollar bread.  Look around you... how many of your friends are laid off or unemployed?  How many people were defaulted on a home loan, credit companies and banks have made fortunes off the debt held by middle class americans at the expense of trying to achieve their own dreams.  who let that happen? I mean its simple math really yet somewhere somehow these people have been allowed to profit from us and make us weaker.  Who let people trade with china and mexico without taxing the imports which subsequently destroyed the industry in the US?  Who allows perscription drug companies to poison our children and pervert our healthcare industry with incentives?  Who lets an ifrastructure rot away for 40 years, and sells things like highways and bridges to people who are not american citizens?  Who's american dream is destroying everyone elses?

Damn well put chap! But i for one respect the English and find them to be better cultured then the US or Canada. And seriously? $4 for a gallon of milk? You think thats a lot? What the heck man we pay 2.50 per liter and some places in Canada pay up to $15 for a 4 liter of milk.

Sure gas is high and there's no reason to have it go up in price cuz the cost of a barrel of crude oil is still the same as it has been for the last 5 years. I mean gas here went from 98 cents per liter to $1.22 or $1.25 per liter in a week. So 4 buck per gallon is cheap when you think about it. And in the UK gas goes for around 5 or 6 Pounds (Ruffly $12 per gallon in USD).

And sure Credit Card companies make lots of money. So what? Is it the credit card company's fault that some idiot decided to spend more then he/she could pay? No. Is it the credit card company's fault that the same idiot decided to use a credit card with a 30 or 35% interest on it? No. It's the persons fault, if people in the North America would stop trying to be something they aren't by buying things they cant afford then we may well all be better off.

And no ones "American Dream" is destroying other peoples "American Dreams" it's because people are never satisfied with what they have or can afford and so go out and help companies to make profits by paying them monies that they don't have, to own things they don't need.

[jrfhoutx]

maybe misquote wasnt the technical term i was looking for... manipulation probably was

You are correct to be afraid of a pompus ass like Trump trying to take the presidency, people are sick of the same old show in washington, I truely believe that is how Obama got elected in the first place, so yes continue to be afraid and dismiss the fact the maybe there is someone who will bring the change we were promised in 2008.

and if you dismiss new england a forecaster for the rest of the country then you probably live in texas :P

who let that happen? I mean its simple math really yet somewhere somehow these people have been allowed to profit from us and make us weaker.  Who let people trade with china and mexico without taxing the imports which subsequently destroyed the industry in the US?  Who allows perscription drug companies to poison our children and pervert our healthcare industry with incentives?  Who lets an ifrastructure rot away for 40 years, and sells things like highways and bridges to people who are not american citizens?  Who's american dream is destroying everyone elses?

I didn't misquote a damn thing, misinterpret? most likely, but then sarcasm and tonal inference are harder to pick out in text.

I am afraid of an idiot like trump running this country, the last thing we need at this point is more mismanagement in the government, however I don't think he's (or anyone else for that matter) is going to bring about any kind of change in one term in office, let alone the two years the current pres has had to do things. if you ask me the infatuation with instant gratification in our society is why people have such a hard time with 'change' to our government, it wasn't set up to change things quickly, if it was our country would have been a wreck far faster than we've seen...

I may live in Texas, but I'm from New England, and I've lived all over this country, I don't dismiss a perspective because of where a person lives (unless you live in another country, like the netherlands, in which case your opinion of US national politics and policy don't count imo). BTW, nice jab at an irrelevant issue, very mature. As for New England as a forecaster for the country, I hope our national political system eventually turns out like that of Massachusetts honestly. They have the highest rate of medically insured individuals and children in the country, and one of the best levels of treatment in the country, why? oh, that's right, 'socialized medicine', MassHealth... They have the highest educational scores in the country, why? they reinvest in the educational system. they also have less crowded prisons making room for true violent offenders and police resources are less tied up and more available to be used where needed, why? oh yeah, decriminalized marijuana... I could keep going, but my point is I think the rest of the country needs to take some cues from New England and Mass, they're doing it right...

who let it happen? well lets see... NAFTA? hmmm... you can blame Clinton all you want but the agreement was initiated and negotiated by G.H.W. Bush, all Clinton did was sign the final paperwork to make it official. Allowing outsourcing of american industry jobs to country's like china in order to lower corporate expenses? again, Republicans. Not taxing imports to spur corporate and industry growth? Reagan and Bush... Loosen FDA regulations in drug trials prior to bringing a new drug to market to spur corporate growth? again, Republicans. Removal of restrictions on healthcare charges and insurance company regulations and incentives? Last I checked the biggest opponent to any kind of 'socialized' medicine or regulations on the healthcare and insurance industries are the Republicans. Who lets the infrastructure rot to line corporate pockets? who sells ownership of our toll roads and bridges to foreign interests? Again, Republicans. Ask Rick Perry who he sold the Trans Texas Corridor to, he won't answer cause he doesn't want to tell you he sold the rights to it to the Chinese. Who wanted to turn Social Security over to Wall Street? G.W. Bush (After Wall street took a big cleaveland steamer in 09 aren't you glad that one didn't happen?). Who loosened restrictions on the financial sector? G.W. Bush. Who initiated the 'economic recovery effort' that so many seem to be pissed off about, and then let the financial sector continue on as they had been? G.W. Bush... Whose 'American Dream is destroying this country? The Republicans. Why? so they can line the pockets of corporate interests, the people who back them and fund their campaigns. Under what guise? the concept of 'Small Government' that doesn't 'invade the lives of the american people', because republicans are 'average americans' just like me and you, just with a ton more money and corporate sponsorship... and sadly the true 'average americans' get suckered into it and eat it up and end up getting :censored:ed over by corporate interests. 

Now, I'm not saying that Democrats are any better (politicians on either side are all :censored:s and none of them really give a about you and I) but look at history, it doesn't lie; and those who don't know it, care about it, pay attention to it, or learn from it, are doomed to repeat it, and the rest of us have to come along for the ride. For as much of a 'me' society as this has become, we're all in this together. The 'big picture' is what is truly important, and doing things to serve your own interests and screwing over other people for short term gains is what got us into this mess. Living the 'american dream' doesn't have to involve stepping on everyone else to get it, working together so that everyone can have it is what is really going to make it obtainable for everyone and sustainable.

Damn well put chap! But i for one respect the English and find them to be better cultured then the US or Canada. And seriously? $4 for a gallon of milk? You think thats a lot? What the heck man we pay 2.50 per liter and some places in Canada pay up to $15 for a 4 liter of milk.

Sure gas is high and there's no reason to have it go up in price cuz the cost of a barrel of crude oil is still the same as it has been for the last 5 years. I mean gas here went from 98 cents per liter to $1.22 or $1.25 per liter in a week. So 4 buck per gallon is cheap when you think about it. And in the UK gas goes for around 5 or 6 Pounds (Ruffly $12 per gallon in USD).

And sure Credit Card companies make lots of money. So what? Is it the credit card company's fault that some idiot decided to spend more then he/she could pay? No. Is it the credit card company's fault that the same idiot decided to use a credit card with a 30 or 35% interest on it? No. It's the persons fault, if people in the North America would stop trying to be something they aren't by buying things they cant afford then we may well all be better off.

And no ones "American Dream" is destroying other peoples "American Dreams" it's because people are never satisfied with what they have or can afford and so go out and help companies to make profits by paying them monies that they don't have, to own things they don't need.

well said...

[toadzilla]

Damn well put chap! But i for one respect the English and find them to be better cultured then the US or Canada. And seriously? $4 for a gallon of milk? You think thats a lot? What the heck man we pay 2.50 per liter and some places in Canada pay up to $15 for a 4 liter of milk.

Sure gas is high and there's no reason to have it go up in price cuz the cost of a barrel of crude oil is still the same as it has been for the last 5 years. I mean gas here went from 98 cents per liter to $1.22 or $1.25 per liter in a week. So 4 buck per gallon is cheap when you think about it. And in the UK gas goes for around 5 or 6 Pounds (Ruffly $12 per gallon in USD).

And sure Credit Card companies make lots of money. So what? Is it the credit card company's fault that some idiot decided to spend more then he/she could pay? No. Is it the credit card company's fault that the same idiot decided to use a credit card with a 30 or 35% interest on it? No. It's the persons fault, if people in the North America would stop trying to be something they aren't by buying things they cant afford then we may well all be better off.

And no ones "American Dream" is destroying other peoples "American Dreams" it's because people are never satisfied with what they have or can afford and so go out and help companies to make profits by paying them monies that they don't have, to own things they don't need.

just wanna put in Ontario we pay  almost 4.50 bucks for 3 liters of milk and gas here is 1.25 its retarded how much a company has the rights to  bring up the cost for no reason other then the consumer needs it so they will pay it and then all other company's follow suit because well that company is making profit why cant we make the same amount

[jrfhoutx]

just wanna put in Ontario we pay  almost 4.50 bucks for 3 liters of milk and gas here is 1.25 its retarded how much a company has the rights to  bring up the cost for no reason other then the consumer needs it so they will pay it and then all other company's follow suit because well that company is making profit why cant we make the same amount

That's what happens when there is no regulation on corporations, greed takes over and the consumer gets :censored:ed. Don't worry though, soon no one will be able to afford any of it and companies will start to collapse. Or we could all just go 'Fight Club' on em and bring everything to a grinding halt " In the world I see - you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway. " that's where it's all headed anyway...

[Crumbz]

wow thats an intresting image Jr

[jrfhoutx]

never seen Fight Club? that's Tyler Durden's dream of the future of society...

[jacobia jacob]

who in their right mind has never seen fight club?

[Crumbz]

naw ive seen it just havent seen it in years... so the details are fuzzy. I seen it the week it came out! lol

[802Chives]

fyi jr i wasnt suggesting you misquoted or manipulated anything I said, that referance was not towards you even though you agreed with the post i refer to; I intentionally did not quote, because i do not need individually discredit people who posted in this thread because this is a discussion not a presidential debate (but believe me that is a game I could play).  I try to avoid weak rhetorical tools like that and talk about the topics at hand because i dont really care what people think of me, I care about the topics and people seeing all sides of the issues and making their own conclusions not just what is fed to them.   

Not sure how day to day life in an area in our country that has been fleaced of industry and business is irrelevant or imature, but I do like the current trends in mass, although having lived there for 3 years I can tell you that taxes are rediculously high and the universal health care is brand new and will have its own pitfalls to be tackled when its actually implemented, but at least its moving in the right direction.  my shot at texas was a sarcastic referance to a reletively strong economy as many of our members are located there.

I dont think what things costs in other coutries is relevant in anyway unless your currency is US dollars, granted most currency in the world relies on the strength of US dollars, what you pay in US is dollars only really measures the strength of the US dollar versus your currency.... but i still feel ur pain as I am sure wages dont match costs no matter where you are

the attitude that dumb/poor people deserve to be fleeced by credit companys is exactly what is wrong with true capitalism, and that is why we dont have true capitalism.  The people who are most at risk are the ones who the government should be protecting and they are not and getting rich while not doing it. its like living next to a police department that wont repsond to your emergency.

i feel like we both have a healthy distaste for the direction this country is headed,  I think I agree with %90 of what you said in this thread, but I just cant get over how defensive you are of the democratic party,  I know Bush Sr. set up the legwork for NAFTA, I clearly said that I understand what the bush's and clintons have done to this country, they both suck just as our current representatives.  NAFTA is propably the biggest influence to what has happend to the industry and in turn the economy in this country and BOTH parties made it happen and arent doing anything about it because it would take money out of their pockets.

I love the term: Instant gratification, and I believe it is why we have drug proplems and dept problems in this country.  I personally dont expect anything to happen anytime soon, however when someone comes along and gets elected under the premise of change and then continues doing the status quo and continues playing the bipartisan smoke show game then that pisses me off and I cant understand why the people who actually bought into it and elected that idea of change arent as furious as I am. 

Like says we are all in this together, however if there wasnt ever any discussions like what happened in this thread then seeing the big picture can be difficult, and media makes it as hard as possible to see the big picture.  so question everything and dont take anything at face value, ask yourself what motivation is behind whatever it is you are questioning and realize that very rarely the true motivation is provided, but rather the politically accepted motivation. 

[jrfhoutx]

I honestly have to tell you, I don't like either side (in fact I think that's one of the biggest problems in our country, picking sides), democrats or republicans, and I'm not defending the democrats, they do just as much stupid as the republicans do. I think that with the current political climate and a lot of the 'conservative' and religious ideology that has been pushed over the last decade, people have gotten lost in the fog of misinformation and most people are to damn lazy to go out and actually read up on anything, they'd rather just take the 3 second sound bites at face value and sound like misinformed idiots adding fuel to the fire, I just aim to remind people who did what...

And believe me Texas does not have a strong economy. it's all fake numbers bolstered by cronyism and pocket lining... the only reason companies come here is because the state government lets them do whatever the they want. there are no worker's rights in Texas and corporations don't return much of anything to the state or the communities they're based in. they come here for bigger and better corporate tax loopholes, looser restrictions on shady business dealings and practices, and a government that is as corrupt as they are. people come here because overall it's cheaper to live here... kinda... Basically, Texas is Mexico, just still legally part of the US...