Accessible Controller Rebuild Help

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Hey my names Justin and I have muscular dystrophy. ive built my own controller 4 the 360, i need help refining it and making additoins to it.

[SixtyninNaMoose]

I'm in process of putting up few more pics.

[1TONpete]

Tell us what you like and dont like. If you can give a description of what you got going on? What is limiting you now? And how we can help? 

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Ok so as it is right now I use my right hand to control the right thumb stick, d-pad, x, b, y, right thumb click, left thumb click, start, select and the guide button. The triggers are located on the floor, left trigger on right foot and right trigger on left foot. The a button and left thumb stick is located on a saitek cyborg command unit. Illustrations are attached.

This set is comfortable and familiar, but I've been having trouble reaching the start and select button without affecting my hand positioning. The left hand set-up is ok but its a lil difficult to position comfortably. However its nice to have the controller to hold onto and the joystick is tiny and very easy to push. so as of now the left hand is fine but would like to eventually come up with something different. I'd like to move the bumpers down to my feet next to my triggers. The trigger are replaced with a all directional button that requires very little force to operate. I then placed a ps2 thumb pad on top to allow me to use my big toe to operate the buttons. I think if the bumpers are moved to my feet, we'd be able to place the start and select where the bumpers were. and finally I want a board to plug and un-plug wires from the circuit board to the individual buttons, this will allow custom button mapping. I'm interested in an alternative way to aim in fps's. and a 4-directional joystick to use as a d-pad.


Please let me know if you guys can help make these changes.

 

[1TONpete]

 Ok first thing to deal with I think is the board. We need to get a board set up with some kind of easily switchable clips. Maybe RCA jacks connected to a circuit board and the circuit board connected to the controller. Or Just splice in rca jacks in line with male and female ends. (nice simple common plug)
 Next thing is lay out. Have you thought about a DDR pad. The lil mat you lay on the floor to dance on. its got 4 way dpad and 4 buttons  , I think. You could have dpad, sel , start and home one the floor, being they are not detrimental in FPS games , This would free up hands for better controls.
 I'm not sure about how well your thumbs work or if you can grip things well , but a flight stick in  your right hand can give you great aiming skill. Dual flight sticks I think would be great for you. You can control movement and aiming with out fingers or thumbs. Just requires hand movement. It also makes it so you have a lt of buttons right at your thumbs at all times. You could have the whole controller mapped out to buttons on the sticks. Never have to take your hands off the controller. 
Give it some thought.
As far as the joystick on dpad... done no problem . Nice arcade ones run from 8$-20$.
If can draw up something that shows your perfect layout....

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Hey denali, thanks for coming up with all these great Ideas. I think that a board with a female/male rca plug connection is perfect, I have someone always with me so switching plug will be no prob. I'd like to completely remove the original case.

The problem with my feet is I only have use of my big toe and I can barely move my feet like a 1/4 of an inch. Having a button with the thumb pad on top is perfect for me, I got the perfect design for those button. but can't think of a way put another for each foot, i guess i could raise the button and put it at a 90 degree angle in front of or beside the toe. I'll try it and let you know. I also attached a pic of toe button.

As far as the hand movement, I have almost nothing. I actually have decent finger movement as long as the joystick/button are easy to operate. However my left hand is drawn up and almost useless, except for some thumb movement. This is why I have so many buttons together on my right. Flight sticks are impossible for me to use. I'm good with the thumb stick as joysticks go. i'm looking to replace a joystick all together eventually but not right now. A small trackball is concept that could work but their not designed as a analog device right?

If your up for it, here's whats needed:

1)   A RCA plug board to easily switch buttons around

2)  A small joystick set to the d-pad function(the small joystick in a saitek cyborg as shown below would be ideal, however it needs to be next a finger on my right hand. Is possible to find those small joysticks without taking apart another cyborg? my current set up is shown below.

3)  Additional foot buttons(I'm pretty sure I got that figured out, can do that on my end. any ideas are welcome though.


Thanks once for your help,
Justin


 

   

[hyper999]

I would recomend using pin headers over rca connectors as they are dirt cheap commonly found and allow you to make a custom plug n play connector system. you could then hook every button on the board to one connector and make as many addon modules as you want that use the same common connector. I'd draw a diagran to better explain but im on my phone

[1TONpete]

I got something in my head that I think will do it all. But I will come back to that. First the dpad idea is exactly what I am using for someone else. Its called a 5 way micro switch. The newer versions are now 5way which means you push down for a 5th button. They used to be 4 way on the cyborgs .
I am working on track ball stuff now also... Unfortunately it will only work on PS3/PC right now.
I found a replacement blackberry track ball , its actually real accurate and really trick looking.
It works with hall sensors instead of pots. So unfortunately xbox controllers can't hook up to them. But there might be a way to use a roller ball somehow from an old mouse.
I have an idea for helping aiming and its along the lines of a flight stick/joystick hybrid . I'll get to that when I get some more progress with the basic design.  I have something I'm all ready working on that I think will fit your needs If I just modify the design a lil. I think I can make it so you can have almost a whole controller all done in your right hand.
here's a lil preview of whats at the core of the build. A handle is then molded around this. I added the spring but with out it it snaps back ok. With out it its very easy to move. I could do it with my pinky.

Thanks for steppin up Hyper. Also is there anything we can do to enclose every thing?
P.S. have a look at my work and work in progress. Might give you some ideas of whats going on in my head.
https://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php/topic,39876.msg299374/topicseen.html#new
https://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php/topic,39784.0.html
https://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php/topic,39835.0.html
https://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php/topic,39753.msg298487.html#new

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Hey,

Hyper, I think any plug that is cheap that you guys recommend and will function will be fine. How much do you think a plug n play system including a pcb from an 360 controller? I know you can get a gamestop wired controller(The 1 used) for $25. Thnx for your help.

Hey,

Denali, If that 5-way micro switch is sensitive enough it'd work great as a d-pad, start, select, guide and a,b,x,y.
I've actually considered trying those switch, but i was uncertain if I could operate them. As far as trackballs go, I bought a few of those blackberry trackballs but I couldn't get them to work. If you can get one to work with the 360, I'd be willing to give it a try. Or and kind trackball for that matter, I actually used to play shooters on the pc with a Logitech trackman wheel, loved it.

My prob with a joystick/flight stick hybrid is the fact that the longer the stick, the more leverage but it requires a wider rang of motion. So really the length of the standard thumb sticks is perfect, but I need 1 thats a bit more sensitive. The joystick I use for right was taken outta the madcatz xbox 360 arcade stick. the small thumb stick outta it is more sensitive then the standard 360/ps2 sticks.

I like the idea of making it more compact to mostly 1 hand. I'm creating a new layout now, i'll send my drawings.

Thanks guys,
Justin

[1TONpete]

Justin.. have you thought about switching systems? I'm just saying...
here are my reasons for ps3.
1 the analog sticks on the ps3 use hall sensors and are far superior than xbox pots. Not confirmed yet but the blackberry track balls should be a direct replacement for the analogs on ps3.
2 other peripherals are supported by the ps3. Track ball mice, flight sticks and hid device...
   they actually sell a device that is like a controller board but with screw terminals. and when used on a ps3 or pc can it read many analog and digital buttons etc. totally customizable. 
3 Im a ps fanboy .. lol. come to the dark side.

Note: when building the rca jacks for buttons add stereo head phone jack for each analog, x,y each have separate plug with v, x , ground , the y would have v , y , ground. I think we should have extra v, and ground spots.

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Couldn't you just give every button a ground and a positive lead, it's what I did because the controller I used had no common ground. Just my suggestion but you've been doing this stuff long, so as long as the plugs work I'll trust you. 

I see your argument, however I'm interested in switching consoles but I might eventually use both. This is because of games like killzone 3, I'll never go to dark side. lol

So I was thinking about the 5-way switches and I've come up with a set-up that I think will be perfect. Its attached. How much would it cost to get a controller and wire it with plugs and 5-way switches? Can you make and send me this set-up or how does this work out?

[1TONpete]

All I ask is you pay for the cost of the parts and pay for the shipping. I'll do the work for free.
I'll price every thing needed this morning after coffee.
Do you have a preference for what type of controller to use as a base? If not can someone recommend a proper controller to start from?
Justin , are the track balls you got on a board or are they separate? Do they look like this?

[hyper999]

You can make the entire controller one handed if you want, heres some examples





Both were made/designed by Ben Heck (Yeah I know he's a douche blah blah blah)

[Rodent]

I haven't really had much time to read this thread other then the  main things like what he has and pics of what you have done already.

SixtyninNaMoose , i think what you looking to do is to  make this more compatiable and more useful to your needs, Kind of like what the pics hyper has shown in the pics. I am more the  Hands on guy then a tech guy, and only good at explaining certain things.

So mainly i think your looking to make this easier to use and not so bulky?  correct me if i am wrong. will see what i can come up with to help you, if I can at all.

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Hey,

Hyper, I actually bought the one handed controller in the top pic. It's a great idea, however it's just to big and impossible to reach everything. For me having both thumb sticks on one hand is to difficult, but having most of it on one hand works good for me. I'm actually very happy with having toe triggers, however they don't have pots. So its sucks for racing games. Can you guys help me figure out how to get a switch with a pot that you can put a ps2 thumb pad on?

Hey,

Rodent, yes your correct I am lookin to refine my current design and make some additions, such as the switch box, 5-way micro switches, toe triggers with pots and possibly a aiming device. Denali if working on the tech part for me but I do need an adjustable foot platform. My legs never hang level with each other, so I keep propping them up with game cases because the slightest change makes all the difference. If possible i need each foot to have an adjustable leg to allow easy change of height. I have a diagram of my ideal setup, but without a adjustable leg.

Hey,

Denali, I'd like a wireless controller if it's fairly cheap, I used a $25 Gamestop wired controller but the wire is always getting tangled(annoying). I don't think I have the blackberry trackballs any more, If I do they weren't mounted to its own board. I have tried the psp nub sticks, but they are way to hard to operate. Can you take my measurements and build individual platforms like the i'v made because the positioning is very precise and I'll have position it myself.
Also can you figure out how to use pots with toe triggers with ps2 thumb pads, but I kinda need a all directional button. 

[1TONpete]

I had an idea for foot pedal analogs if interested?
Take an analog and turn it up side down and mount the thumb side to a plate or board or floor. mount the analog to a foot pedal. Picture something kinda like what I'm demoing in the video only a foot pedal instead of controller board.

Also I found this.. I think we might be able to use s-video plugs for analog connections.





Also your toe analog. I can lock an analog stick in one x or y plain. and it would act as an analog trigger. easy peasy but requires special analog stick found on aftermarket ps3 controller. The insides are metal and can be soldered to lock one x or y easily. I did by accident once. the controller costs 25$ . I could use another wired board and cover some of the cost if can keep the board and use the sticks for your project. 
Can you draw up your perfect one hand controller or dream controller or at least button layout with some basic measurements. I will do my best to see it happen. BTW the thumb pad for the 5way is very small about the size of an xbox home button. I can even make smaller ones. maybe put analog stick thumb pad on the 5way?

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Hey,

Denali, the foot pedal controlled analog stick is a great idea and I'm sure it could help a lot people, but I wouldn't have enough rang of motion/controller to use that set-up. 
Yeah we can totally use a s-video or a 6 pin din connector for analog, I say a din connector because my controller didn't have a common ground so every pin had a wire straight to the board. But I'll leave it up to you, sounds cool to me eather way. So your saying the toe analog would only function in 1 direction but it would function like a trigger? That would be great, never thought of that.  As far as the controller cost and separate wired board goes, I'm fine just using the sticks on my project. I had some models in autoCAD of my button set-up from an idea I had, I made few changes to make it how I want it. The measurements are pretty accurate as I used a digital caliper to make exact measurements for my positioning. If you can make the set-ups with my designs I'll be able to mount it to my chair mounted platform. Also I have a spare cyborg command unit, can you rewire the joystick and the thumb button with a plug? Can each direction on the 5-way switches have it's own plug? It'd be nice to change or disable each direction depending on the game I'm playing. Can you also add rapid fire and the vibrating motors? Is it possible to have a motor on each foot & 1 by my right hand? I have spare motors and 2 rapid fire chips. I can send those along with my spare cyborg.
My pics have a few notes on them too. 1st pic is for my fingers and the 2nd is for my thumb behind the joystick, I also wanted a thumb post to use as leverage for aiming.

Thanks,
Justin
   

[1TONpete]

no problem. I will get started on the 5 way switch housing. I'll have order more 5 way switches. Anything you want rewired, send it my way and I'll do my best. I'll pm you my address and contact info.
"Can each direction on the 5-way switches have it's own plug?" -yes. you'll be able to swap buttons for dpad, switch buttons , it will be as simple as unplug and plug in .It is a common ground tho. What I am thinking is very button and stick will have a plug and will be swappable to the rca board I'm working on.
RF = yes.
rumble motors = yes.
So just so we are on the same page let me go over your needs as i see them now.
1 wire up a controller to the rca board for button swapping.
2 wire up 5 way switches for hand controls (what about aiming and movement or are the sticks on the floor?)
3 wire up a foot pedal . Im a lil confused on the foot pedal. Do you want me to make you a toe trigger from a analog stick? If you could go over the foot pedal design with me again please?

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Hey,

Denali, thanks a ton man, can't wait to finally have idea come to life. I will list of every thing i'm needing(including wire length) again below,


1)  Controller wired for button swapping.

2)  Wire up 5-way switches(need 12" of wire from board)

3)  Wire up analog thumb stick for right hand aiming(need 12" of wire from board)

3)  Wire up the joystick in my cyborg(leave in housing & run wires out of housing)(need 12" of wire from board)

4)  Wire up thumb button in my cyborg(the back 1 only)(needs 12" of wire from board)

5)  Wire up analog sticks to function as triggers at my feet(need 2 1/2' of wire from board)

6)  Wire 2 rumble motors to my feet

7)  Wire 1 rumble motor for cyborg controller

8)  Wire 1 rumble motor for right hand

9)  Wire rapid fire to controller

10) Make me one happy gamer.

[1TONpete]

Ok we'll get started... Send me everything you can, and I'll get it all together for you.

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Hey,

Denali, I went through my spare parts and found the blackberry trackball you wanted, It's attached to the board like you wanted. I also have a ps3 racing wheel and pedals just sitting around, tried making a foot pedal 4 xbox out of it but was to stiff. I put it in the box I'm sending, figured you might be able to use it for someone else. I'm also sending a few other controller parts I don't need. Things for my project that I'm sending are as follows.

1)   6 to 8 rumble motors

2)   1 rapid fire chip

3)   1 cyborg command unit(have to buy a new 1, my spare 1 is unusable)

Can I send the cyborg to your address straight from online shop?

[1TONpete]

Can I send the cyborg to your address straight from online shop? - sure.
Awesome for finding those other parts. Hyper and I might have figured out a way to use track balls on xbox analogs. It requires a mircocontroller and some code but we think we can get it to function.
Also , I have an idea to if you up to hearing it. On ps3 controller we have 4 different comms. 2 inparticular are kind of neat. IF you take comm 1 and swap it for com 2  it makes your dpad act like /\,o[],x . It will also switch l1/2 with r1/2. Here is my thought. If you had like a shift button. A button that when pressed sends the second com signal instead. So your 5 way switch will turn into a 10 way.now you only need half the buttons. one 5way switch could replace up,down,left , right, a,b,y,x, l1,r1 , with triggers at you feet. This mod will only work on a controller that does not have an all comm ground.

[hyper999]

Also , I have an idea to if you up to hearing it. On ps3 controller we have 4 different comms. 2 inparticular are kind of neat. IF you take comm 1 and swap it for com 2  it makes your dpad act like /\,o[],x . It will also switch l1/2 with r1/2. Here is my thought. If you had like a shift button. A button that when pressed sends the second com signal instead. So your 5 way switch will turn into a 10 way.now you only need half the buttons. one 5way switch could replace up,down,left , right, a,b,y,x, l1,r1 , with triggers at you feet. This mod will only work on a controller that does not have an all comm ground.

Or.... you could just use that awesome new mod hazer made that allows you to remap all the buttons on the controller to where ever you want using your PC?

[SixtyninNaMoose]

So with the shift button you could change a 5-way to a 10-way, but only when I want? So I could choose to have 2 10-way switches or 4 5-way switches, but I'd be able to change it at will? If the answers my questions are yes then that sounds sweet, if the answers are no I'd have to decline.
You think figured out how to use the blackberry trackball? That would be sweet to try, but can I have the ability to swap it with a thumb stick at will? If so, I'm am down to have that set-up.

And Hyper, I'm not sure what software your talking about, but It'd prefer not having use my pc when I want to change something. Thanks for the suggestion it sounds interesting, can give me a link or some info about it?

[hyper999]

So with the shift button you could change a 5-way to a 10-way, but only when I want? So I could choose to have 2 10-way switches or 4 5-way switches, but I'd be able to change it at will? If the answers my questions are yes then that sounds sweet, if the answers are no I'd have to decline.
You think figured out how to use the blackberry trackball? That would be sweet to try, but can I have the ability to swap it with a thumb stick at will? If so, I'm am down to have that set-up.

And Hyper, I'm not sure what software your talking about, but It'd prefer not having use my pc when I want to change something. Thanks for the suggestion it sounds interesting, can give me a link or some info about it?

https://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php/topic,39591.msg296985.html#msg296985


There ya go it's really rather awesome

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Hey,

Denali, I shipped the box fool of parts to you today via usps, it's scheduled to arrive next friday the 15th. I'll send you the cyborg unit next week, prob monday.

[1TONpete]

ok , I'm glad we are going to be making something for you that will hopefully help.
I'll let you know when I receive everything. I should probably order a few of those 5ways now. As i am down to my last one.
First shipment of stuff received .  I am starting tonight. (technically I already started on the connection board)
Just in case the 5way switch idea doesn't work out I will build a standard box holding abxy etc buttons. It will be plug and play like the rest. As a back up plan for buttons, i think dpad will be fine.
I made a decision on the controller type. I will use common ground, it will make swapping at the rca board easier and give almost unlimited options. But we wont have the shift button.




Also I have been thinking about your toe triggers... Can you push normal controller triggers down with your toe? (my original plan wont work) But if I mount these to a base that would be like if there was a controller at your feet facing away from your foot. I would modd the trigger to be more toe ergonomic. Can you have someone hold a controller at your feet and see if you can controller trigger function this way? If so I think we are good to go... One side note.. these 5way switches are tiny. Is a standard xbox controller comfortable in your right hand? (right hand controls only) No trigger use , just holding the controller and using the right stick and buttons? I was thinking about chopping up one of the shells I got and mounting right hand controls into the 1/3 shell. I have many shells , I have ps3 /ps2 style also if they are more comfortable? I would mount the  3 5way switches into the button holes and mount a stick where the right stick belongs. The last button hole could be used to control RF or what ever you want it to be.

[1TONpete]

A lil bit of an update, I'll post some more pics soon.










These svideo plugs will be used for analog connections.


The toe triggers w/o springs and toe pad. One is all the way up, the other is all the way down.

[SixtyninNaMoose]

Dude its looking sweet and the toe triggers are a great idea. thnx man

[SixtyninNaMoose]

hey check this out, its a controller fitted with a trackball

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320699965132&ih=011&category=117042&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1